Meade LX-90 question

I have a question about the use of a Meade LX-90.

Specifically, if one gets the wedge, can one operate it just like an
"old school" clock drive fork-mount SCT? What I want to be able to do
is mount the telescope to the wedge, flip a switch, and have it rotate
the RA axis at sideareal rate. End of story.

I know that the LX90 can track the sky in alt-az mode without a wedge,
but for that to work you need to let the thing figure out where it is,
which means lining it up on a couple of stars. Does the LX90 have a
simple-to-access mode where you tell it that it's polar aligned and that
it shouldn't think too hard?

How does the alt-az alignment really work? I'm not interested in
marketing hype which talks about how easy it is, nor am I really
interested in how easy goto is once you've got it aligned. What I'm
curious about is how much fuss it takes to get the telescope roughly
tracking the sky so that when you find something, it will stay in the
telescope FOV for 5 or 10 minutes or so.

It seems like a kind of a shame to have to spend an extra $600-$700 for
an LX90 that operates just like an LX10, but if the LX10 is
discontinued, one may have no choice.

-Rob

--
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Rob Knop wrote:
I have a question about the use of a Meade LX-90.

Specifically, if one gets the wedge, can one operate it just like an
"old school" clock drive fork-mount SCT? What I want to be able to do
is mount the telescope to the wedge, flip a switch, and have it rotate
the RA axis at sideareal rate.

Since owners are getting good astrophotographs with it, that must be
possible.

My guess is that "flip a switch" is really a menu option on the Autostar
hand controller, though.

Phil

Gerry Aitken writes:

It takes me 5 minutes to set up in alt-az made. That's five minutes from
the time place the tripod on the ground and start to level it. I've
never had any trouble with tracking in this mode. I really cannot see
the point of a wedge unless you want to take long exposure
pictures. it's just another level of fuss for the visual observer to
deal with, imho.

It takes *you* five minutes to set up in alt-az mode. But I'm sure
you're far more capable with telescopes than the average person. What
do you have to do in order to do it?

I'm not thinking of the experiened or even motivated amateurs, but
rather students in an introductory astronomy course. We have a facility
where the stands (not really just piers, but weighted barrels what would
probably intefere with the sticky bits on a GEM) are always out there,
and the wedges are permanently mounted to them (approximately polar
aligned). All the students have to do is bring the telescope out and
bolt it to the wedge, and they're ready to go. Setting up the wedge
isn't any fuss at all, since it's already there and pointing in the
right direction. Setting up an alt-az telescope would be simlar fuss
(or harder, depending on how accessible the bolts were).

If they then have to find and align the telescope on two stars,
especially in the first third or so of the term it will make the whole
process much more frusturating for them-- and many find it somewhat
frusturating already. Similarly, if the process of getting the
telescope into "simple RA tracking" mode is more complicated than
flipping a switch, it will both make it more frusturating for the
students who have to learn more about how to run an unfamiliar
telescope, and will doubtless provide a more complicated system with
more places for them to screw things up.

The goal is to minimize both the pitfalls for the students to break
things and the barriers to their getting looking at the sky and doing
observations. That's why I'm interested in what is really necessary to
get the alt-az tracking going. I know that for *myself*, it would be no
big deal, but it's very different for students in the course.

It seems like a kind of a shame to have to spend an extra $600-$700 for
an LX90 that operates just like an LX10, but if the LX10 is
discontinued, one may have no choice.

Get a secondhand LX10 then?

Unfortunately, this is university purchasing, and it's not clear that
second hand purchasing will even be an option. If it is, it may solve a
short-term problem, and we are exploring that possibility. However, we
will need to buy several, and will probably need to buy a few each year
for the forseeable future, so a solution that involves a manufactured
and reliably available telescope is better.

-Rob

--
-=-=-= Rob Knop =-= =-= http://www.pobox.com/~rknop =-=-=-
Help the EFF protect basic freedoms online: http://www.eff.org
Playwrights & theatre types, see The Dramatic Exchange: http://www.dramex.org

I visited the Oceanside Photo (OPT) website earlier today and thought I
saw LX-10s listed. Yes .. here is what it says:

Meade 8" LX10 SCT - Standard LX10 Tripod now comes standard with this
scope...a $195 value!! Optical performance of the LX200GPS at a
fraction of the cost. The optional Ultra-High Transmission Coatings
are available on the LX10 for an additional $175. Meade's $65
shipping charge will be added to your invoice. View Accessories

Our Price $995.00

Phil

Rob Knop wrote:

It seems like a kind of a shame to have to spend an extra
$600-$700 for an LX90 that operates just like an LX10, but if the
LX10 is discontinued, one may have no choice.

Get a secondhand LX10 then?


Unfortunately, this is university purchasing, and it's not clear that
second hand purchasing will even be an option. If it is, it may
solve a short-term problem, and we are exploring that possibility.
However, we will need to buy several, and will probably need to buy a
few each year for the forseeable future, so a solution that involves
a manufactured and reliably available telescope is better.

-Rob

Phil Wheeler wrote:

Rob Knop wrote:
I have a question about the use of a Meade LX-90.

Specifically, if one gets the wedge, can one operate it just like an
"old school" clock drive fork-mount SCT? What I want to be able to do
is mount the telescope to the wedge, flip a switch, and have it rotate
the RA axis at sideareal rate.

Since owners are getting good astrophotographs with it, that must be
possible.

My guess is that "flip a switch" is really a menu option on the Autostar
hand controller, though.

You tell the Meade AutoStar whether it is in Alt-Az or Polar mode.

If Polar, it assumes that it's polar aligned then gives you the option
of either a easy align (where it picks two stars to align on), a one-star
align (where you pick one star to align on), or a two-star align (where
you pick two stars). The only difference from the Alt-Az alignment
procedure is the orientation of the telescope and the Polar setting.

If you need more, you can find the AutoStar instruction manual
on Meade's web site under Customer Support.



Phil

--
Tom Royer
Lead Engineer, Software Test
The MITRE Corporation
202 Burlington Road
Bedford, MA 01730
Voice: (781) 271-8399
FAX: (781) 271-8500


"If you're not free to fail, you're not free." --Gene Burns

Rob Knop wrote:
Gerry Aitken writes:


It takes me 5 minutes to set up in alt-az made. That's five minutes from
the time place the tripod on the ground and start to level it. I've
never had any trouble with tracking in this mode. I really cannot see
the point of a wedge unless you want to take long exposure
pictures. it's just another level of fuss for the visual observer to
deal with, imho.


It takes *you* five minutes to set up in alt-az mode. But I'm sure
you're far more capable with telescopes than the average person. What
do you have to do in order to do it?

Hehe, I'm the 'average person' of which you speak.


I'm not thinking of the experiened or even motivated amateurs, but
rather students in an introductory astronomy course. We have a facility
where the stands (not really just piers, but weighted barrels what would
probably intefere with the sticky bits on a GEM) are always out there,
and the wedges are permanently mounted to them (approximately polar
aligned). All the students have to do is bring the telescope out and
bolt it to the wedge, and they're ready to go. Setting up the wedge
isn't any fuss at all, since it's already there and pointing in the
right direction. Setting up an alt-az telescope would be simlar fuss
(or harder, depending on how accessible the bolts were).

In view of the above. It should take a few minutes, at most, to set the
scope up and polar mode.


If they then have to find and align the telescope on two stars,
especially in the first third or so of the term it will make the whole
process much more frusturating for them-- and many find it somewhat
frusturating already. Similarly, if the process of getting the
telescope into "simple RA tracking" mode is more complicated than
flipping a switch, it will both make it more frusturating for the
students who have to learn more about how to run an unfamiliar
telescope, and will doubtless provide a more complicated system with
more places for them to screw things up.

What can I say? It's not rocket science to just align with a couple of
stars and press a button. How old are these students?

The goal is to minimize both the pitfalls for the students to break
things and the barriers to their getting looking at the sky and doing
observations. That's why I'm interested in what is really necessary to
get the alt-az tracking going. I know that for *myself*, it would be no
big deal, but it's very different for students in the course.

Look, Rob, we are talking EZ align here! If I were you, I'd be MUCH more
worried about them cross threading the bolt while attaching the scope to
the wedge than not being able to press a few buttons in the right order!

Good luck

Gerry

Rob Knop wrote:

Unfortunately, this is university purchasing, and it's not clear that
second hand purchasing will even be an option. If it is, it may solve a
short-term problem, and we are exploring that possibility. However, we
will need to buy several, and will probably need to buy a few each year
for the forseeable future, so a solution that involves a manufactured
and reliably available telescope is better.


Be warned, the LX90 is not without it's little gremlins from time to time.

Gerry

Rod Mollise wrote:
Be warned, the LX90 is not without it's little gremlins from time to time.


What ain't?! ;-)


Hehe, plenty. But the LX90 has to go back to Meade when it's sick.

Gerry

Hi Rob,
As far as I know the LX10 is still being manufactured.

As for the LX90, 5 minutes is about right for setup in alt-az. You should
calibrate and train the drives first (also about a 5 minute procedure and
very simple). That's something that should be done periodically (about
every 6 months or whenever you upgrade the firmware). Once that's done,
just level the tripod and mount the scope. Make sure you've entered a
moderately accurate location in the Autostar and set the current time as
accurately as possible. Point the telescope towards true north (for the
northern hemisphere) and level the tube. Start the Autostar and go to Easy
Align. The Autostar will select two alignment stars and scroll to the
first. It will most likely be the brightest star in that part of the sky
and should be easy to pick out. It probably will not be centered in the
field of view but should be in the FOV of your finder scope. Once the scope
has completely finished slewing (very important to wait until it's really
finished), just use the keypad to center the star and press enter. The
Autostar will slew to the next alignment star and you repeat the process.
Once alignment is complete, my GOTOs and tracking are usually accurate for
an entire evening.

Alignment in polar mode is basically the same, you just have to let the
Autostar know it's in polar mode. The Autostar will even help you tweak
your polar alignment. I imagine you could just skip the alignment all
together and just make sure the Autostar is in Polar mode if you don't want
to use the GOTO capability but why would you? Alignment is very simple and
something anyone can learn in a few minutes.

Of course, if your university is like ours', budgets are tight and if you
don't need GOTO, double-check the LX10. They're still advertised on Meade's
web site so I'm pretty sure they're still available. My local dealer is
still accepting orders as far as I can tell from their web site.

Ray Porter

"Rob Knop" wrote in message
...
Gerry Aitken writes:

It takes me 5 minutes to set up in alt-az made. That's five minutes from
the time place the tripod on the ground and start to level it. I've
never had any trouble with tracking in this mode. I really cannot see
the point of a wedge unless you want to take long exposure
pictures. it's just another level of fuss for the visual observer to
deal with, imho.

It takes *you* five minutes to set up in alt-az mode. But I'm sure
you're far more capable with telescopes than the average person. What
do you have to do in order to do it?

I'm not thinking of the experiened or even motivated amateurs, but
rather students in an introductory astronomy course. We have a facility
where the stands (not really just piers, but weighted barrels what would
probably intefere with the sticky bits on a GEM) are always out there,
and the wedges are permanently mounted to them (approximately polar
aligned). All the students have to do is bring the telescope out and
bolt it to the wedge, and they're ready to go. Setting up the wedge
isn't any fuss at all, since it's already there and pointing in the
right direction. Setting up an alt-az telescope would be simlar fuss
(or harder, depending on how accessible the bolts were).

If they then have to find and align the telescope on two stars,
especially in the first third or so of the term it will make the whole
process much more frusturating for them-- and many find it somewhat
frusturating already. Similarly, if the process of getting the
telescope into "simple RA tracking" mode is more complicated than
flipping a switch, it will both make it more frusturating for the
students who have to learn more about how to run an unfamiliar
telescope, and will doubtless provide a more complicated system with
more places for them to screw things up.

The goal is to minimize both the pitfalls for the students to break
things and the barriers to their getting looking at the sky and doing
observations. That's why I'm interested in what is really necessary to
get the alt-az tracking going. I know that for *myself*, it would be no
big deal, but it's very different for students in the course.

It seems like a kind of a shame to have to spend an extra $600-$700
for
an LX90 that operates just like an LX10, but if the LX10 is
discontinued, one may have no choice.

Get a secondhand LX10 then?

Unfortunately, this is university purchasing, and it's not clear that
second hand purchasing will even be an option. If it is, it may solve a
short-term problem, and we are exploring that possibility. However, we
will need to buy several, and will probably need to buy a few each year
for the forseeable future, so a solution that involves a manufactured
and reliably available telescope is better.

-Rob

--
-=-=-= Rob Knop =-= =-= http://www.pobox.com/~rknop =-=-=-
Help the EFF protect basic freedoms online: http://www.eff.org
Playwrights & theatre types, see The Dramatic Exchange:
http://www.dramex.org

Hi Rob,
To try and answer your question:

Does the LX90 have a
simple-to-access mode where you tell it that it's polar aligned and that
it shouldn't think too hard?

I am not 100% sure that this will work(someone here will correct me). Once
you have mounted the telescope for polar alignment and turned on the
Autostar:
1.) - Go to the menu item Setup-Telescope-Mount and select Polar.
2.) - Go to Setup-Targets and select Astronomical. The LX90
instructions say then the tracking motor will be activated at this point and
"any object you observe will remain in the eyepiece."

This sounds like a quick and dirty way to get tracking in Polar mode without
the use of any star alignment. But be warned that you won't have the use of
the go-to(why you wouldn't want that I don't know). - Clear skies, no
mosquitos.






How does the alt-az alignment really work? I'm not interested in
marketing hype which talks about how easy it is, nor am I really
interested in how easy goto is once you've got it aligned. What I'm
curious about is how much fuss it takes to get the telescope roughly
tracking the sky so that when you find something, it will stay in the
telescope FOV for 5 or 10 minutes or so.

It seems like a kind of a shame to have to spend an extra $600-$700 for
an LX90 that operates just like an LX10, but if the LX10 is
discontinued, one may have no choice.

-Rob

--
-=-=-= Rob Knop =-= =-= http://www.pobox.com/~rknop =-=-=-
Help the EFF protect basic freedoms online: http://www.eff.org
Playwrights & theatre types, see The Dramatic Exchange:
http://www.dramex.org