Slow day in SAA

From the much heralded concept from 100 years ago -

"Einstein's first theory of relativity, which he published in 1905,
broke away from the Newtonian reliance on space and time as immutable
frames of reference. This theory was immediately recognized by the
scientific community as having profound implications for physics and
cosmology. "

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia...pecialRel.html

The whole point of relativity is to expand the illegal choice Newton
give himself to an infinite amount of choices insofar as Newton
created an illegal hypothetical observer on the Sun (absolute frame)
as opposed to the Earth observer (relative frame) in applying a
resolution of retrogrades,again,the maneuver is both illegal and
false. . In relativity-speak these are known as 'frames of reference'
and you can create as many as you like to do whatever job is
needed.Like squirrels running around a circular cage,creating
scenarios occupies both the opponents and proponents of relativity,it
may be a nightmare for most people but they are content with their
lot.


So,where are these 'absolute' frames of reference coming from as
Newton proposes it -

'PHÆNOMENON IV. '
"That the fixed stars being at rest, the periodic times of the five
primary planets, and (whether of the sun about the earth, or) of the
earth about the sun, are in the sesquiplicate proportion of their
mean
distances from the sun.

This proportion, first observed by Kepler, is now received by all
astronomers; for the periodic times are the same, and the dimensions
of the orbits are the same, whether the sun revolves about the earth,
or the earth about the sun."

What you need is a graphic from Kepler to show where Newton jumped the
tracks -

http://mitpress.mit.edu/journals/pdf/POSC_13_1_74_0.pdf

On page 13 of that pdf file there is the plotted positions of Mars
against the constellational background,this plotting would be common
to both geocentric and heliocentric astronomers and this is where
Newton is illegally getting his " the orbits are the same, whether the
sun revolves about the earth, or the earth about the sun".

An astronomer would not make the mistake of believing that the Earth
occupies the center of the diagram as the retrograde loops represent
the orbital motion of the Earth as well as Mars .If you are
simpleminded you would place the Sun at the center and believe this is
how retrogrades disappear hence -

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct,
sometimes stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the
sun
they are always seen direct" Newton

So,is everyone happy now about the 'fixed stars absolute frame of
reference' and where Newton is getting it from,how it has nothing to
do with aether and how it relates to a poor geometric intepretation of
the main heliocentric argument for retrograde resolution

On Sep 2, 10:49 am, oriel36 wrote:

On page 13 of that pdf file there is the plotted positions of Mars
against the constellational background,this plotting would be common
to both geocentric and heliocentric astronomers

It is true that it would be common to all Earth-bound astronomers,
whether they believe in the geocentric theory or the heliocentric
theory. But there are, of course, no loops in the actual motion of
Mars around the Sun, since, as you note, the retrogade motion is due
to the Earth's own motion.

John Savard

On Sep 3, 5:51 am, Quadibloc wrote:
On Sep 2, 10:49 am, oriel36 wrote:

On page 13 of that pdf file there is the plotted positions of Mars
against the constellational background,this plotting would be common
to both geocentric and heliocentric astronomers

It is true that it would be common to all Earth-bound astronomers,
whether they believe in the geocentric theory or the heliocentric
theory. But there are, of course, no loops in the actual motion of
Mars around the Sun, since, as you note, the retrogade motion is due
to the Earth's own motion.

You can see the apparent retrograde "motion" for Mars for the years
2003, 2005, 2007 and 2010 he

http://thadlabs.com/FILES/Mars_retro_2003.pdf
http://thadlabs.com/FILES/Mars_retro_2005.pdf
http://thadlabs.com/FILES/Mars_retro_2007.pdf
http://thadlabs.com/FILES/Mars_retro_2010.pdf

Other references he

ANIMATIONS:

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/allabout/nightsky/
nightsky04-2003animation.html
http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/projects/data/Retrograde/
http://www.lasalle.edu/~smithsc/Astronomy/retrograd.html [1997]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSU5VwIQTNI
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/retrograde/aristotle.html

DRAWINGS and PICTURES:

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080511.html
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/allabout/nightsky/nightsky04.html
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Solar/retromars.html
http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academi...rses/astro201/
retrograde.htm

ARTICLES:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Retrograde-motion
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Synodic-period
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrograde_and_direct_motion