Expanding solar system.

All agree that the universe is expanding. But what about the solar
system. Is it expanding too? And if it is, is the distance to the moon
increasing? Is it possible to do an accurate measurement of the moon
distance over time to detect eventually a small increasing in the
distance? Would the scientific establishment accept the results? What
sort of evidence would be appropriate in general to change the opinion
of the establishment? Who in the establishment is the leading person or
organization that have so much impact on what decisions to take that it
could change the common opinion on things?
--
Gravity Measurement

http://home.no.net/knutove/gravity/indexg.html

"Knut Ove Hauge" wrote in message
...
All agree that the universe is expanding. But what about the solar
system. Is it expanding too? And if it is, is the distance to the moon
increasing? Is it possible to do an accurate measurement of the moon
distance over time to detect eventually a small increasing in the
distance? Would the scientific establishment accept the results? What
sort of evidence would be appropriate in general to change the opinion
of the establishment? Who in the establishment is the leading person or
organization that have so much impact on what decisions to take that it
could change the common opinion on things?

Knut, get a grip and do some reading. Start with Ned Wright's
Cosmology Tutorial.

Gravitationally bound systems (like the solar system) are
immune to the overall expansion of the universe: they are
held together by the gravitational force.

The distance between the Earth and the Moon is measured to
great accuracy due to corner reflectors left there during
the Apollo missions. The distance is measured by timing the
round trip time for laser pulses. The Moon is receding from
the Earth by about a centimetre or two per year, as predicted
by angular momentum transfer to its orbit by tidal friction
effects.

Dear Knut Ove Hauge:

"Knut Ove Hauge" wrote in message
...
All agree that the universe is expanding. But what about the solar
system. Is it expanding too? And if it is, is the distance to the moon
increasing?

The Moon is receding from the Earth.
Some planets are receding from the Sun, and at least one is not.

David A. Smith

"Knut Ove Hauge" wrote in message
...

All agree that the universe is expanding.

No.

But what about the solar
system. Is it expanding too?

No.

And if it is,

It isn't participating in the universal expansion.
It is a gravitationally bound system.

is the distance to the moon
increasing?

Yes. For altogether different reasons.

Is it possible to do an accurate measurement of the moon
distance over time to detect eventually a small increasing in the
distance?

Yes. It has been done and confirmed repeatedly.

Would the scientific establishment accept the results?

They do.

What
sort of evidence would be appropriate in general to change the opinion
of the establishment?

Self-consistent observational data, among other things.

Who in the establishment is the leading person or
organization that have so much impact on what decisions to take that it
could change the common opinion on things?

Science operates by consensus.
There is no leader. There is no single global controlling agency.

--
Gravity Measurement

http://home.no.net/knutove/gravity/indexg.html


Nowhere in your site do you actually compare your
calculations with the actual observations in the real
world.
For example, you calculate that the temperature
of the earth is 258.13 K. Do you even know how
cold that is? What do you mean by the
temperature of a planet? Are you talking about the
average surface temperature? The average temperature
of the entire sphere including the core? The average
temperature of the atmosphere?

In message , Greg Neill
writes
"Knut Ove Hauge" wrote in message
...
All agree that the universe is expanding. But what about the solar
system. Is it expanding too? And if it is, is the distance to the moon
increasing? Is it possible to do an accurate measurement of the moon
distance over time to detect eventually a small increasing in the
distance? Would the scientific establishment accept the results? What
sort of evidence would be appropriate in general to change the opinion
of the establishment? Who in the establishment is the leading person or
organization that have so much impact on what decisions to take that it
could change the common opinion on things?

Knut, get a grip and do some reading. Start with Ned Wright's
Cosmology Tutorial.

Gravitationally bound systems (like the solar system) are
immune to the overall expansion of the universe: they are
held together by the gravitational force.

The distance between the Earth and the Moon is measured to
great accuracy due to corner reflectors left there during
the Apollo missions. The distance is measured by timing the
round trip time for laser pulses. The Moon is receding from
the Earth by about a centimetre or two per year, as predicted
by angular momentum transfer to its orbit by tidal friction
effects.

I'm fairly sure (i.e. probably wrong :-) that even if the solar system
was expanding we wouldn't be able to measure it yet.
--
"It is written in mathematical language"
Remove spam and invalid from address to reply.

Dear Jonathan Silverlight:

"Jonathan Silverlight"
wrote in message ...
In message , Greg Neill
writes
"Knut Ove Hauge" wrote in message
...
All agree that the universe is expanding. But what about the solar
system. Is it expanding too? And if it is, is the distance to the moon
increasing? Is it possible to do an accurate measurement of the moon
distance over time to detect eventually a small increasing in the
distance? Would the scientific establishment accept the results? What
sort of evidence would be appropriate in general to change the opinion
of the establishment? Who in the establishment is the leading person
or
organization that have so much impact on what decisions to take that
it
could change the common opinion on things?

Knut, get a grip and do some reading. Start with Ned Wright's
Cosmology Tutorial.

Gravitationally bound systems (like the solar system) are
immune to the overall expansion of the universe: they are
held together by the gravitational force.

The distance between the Earth and the Moon is measured to
great accuracy due to corner reflectors left there during
the Apollo missions. The distance is measured by timing the
round trip time for laser pulses. The Moon is receding from
the Earth by about a centimetre or two per year, as predicted
by angular momentum transfer to its orbit by tidal friction
effects.

I'm fairly sure (i.e. probably wrong :-) that even if the solar system
was expanding we wouldn't be able to measure it yet.

If you mean Hubble's parameter, yes we could measure it. It is "only"
10^-11 change per year, a little less than the LLR recession rate.
Assuming that no other "Universal constant" were changing, recession
values of this magnitude have been observed. And the opposite motion,
reduction in orbital diameters have been noted of this magnitude.

In the case of the planets, I believe monitoring the orbital period is an
accurate method of "ampifying" changes, if any. Just need a *really* good
stopwatch. ;}

David A. Smith

Jonathan Silverlight wrote:
In message , Greg Neill
writes

"Knut Ove Hauge" wrote in message
...

All agree that the universe is expanding. But what about the solar
system. Is it expanding too? And if it is, is the distance to the moon
increasing? Is it possible to do an accurate measurement of the moon
distance over time to detect eventually a small increasing in the
distance? Would the scientific establishment accept the results? What
sort of evidence would be appropriate in general to change the opinion
of the establishment? Who in the establishment is the leading person or
organization that have so much impact on what decisions to take that it
could change the common opinion on things?


Knut, get a grip and do some reading. Start with Ned Wright's
Cosmology Tutorial.

Gravitationally bound systems (like the solar system) are
immune to the overall expansion of the universe: they are
held together by the gravitational force.

The distance between the Earth and the Moon is measured to
great accuracy due to corner reflectors left there during
the Apollo missions. The distance is measured by timing the
round trip time for laser pulses. The Moon is receding from
the Earth by about a centimetre or two per year, as predicted
by angular momentum transfer to its orbit by tidal friction
effects.


I'm fairly sure (i.e. probably wrong :-) that even if the solar system
was expanding we wouldn't be able to measure it yet.

You probably right. My calculations indicate 630 meters a year.

--
Gravity Measurement

http://home.no.net/knutove/gravity/indexg.html

(formerly) wrote:

Dear Jonathan Silverlight:

"Jonathan Silverlight"
wrote in message ...

In message , Greg Neill
writes

"Knut Ove Hauge" wrote in message
...

All agree that the universe is expanding. But what about the solar
system. Is it expanding too? And if it is, is the distance to the moon
increasing? Is it possible to do an accurate measurement of the moon
distance over time to detect eventually a small increasing in the
distance? Would the scientific establishment accept the results? What
sort of evidence would be appropriate in general to change the opinion
of the establishment? Who in the establishment is the leading person

or

organization that have so much impact on what decisions to take that

it

could change the common opinion on things?

Knut, get a grip and do some reading. Start with Ned Wright's
Cosmology Tutorial.

Gravitationally bound systems (like the solar system) are
immune to the overall expansion of the universe: they are
held together by the gravitational force.

The distance between the Earth and the Moon is measured to
great accuracy due to corner reflectors left there during
the Apollo missions. The distance is measured by timing the
round trip time for laser pulses. The Moon is receding from
the Earth by about a centimetre or two per year, as predicted
by angular momentum transfer to its orbit by tidal friction
effects.

I'm fairly sure (i.e. probably wrong :-) that even if the solar system
was expanding we wouldn't be able to measure it yet.


If you mean Hubble's parameter, yes we could measure it. It is "only"
10^-11 change per year, a little less than the LLR recession rate.
Assuming that no other "Universal constant" were changing, recession
values of this magnitude have been observed. And the opposite motion,
reduction in orbital diameters have been noted of this magnitude.

In the case of the planets, I believe monitoring the orbital period is an
accurate method of "ampifying" changes, if any. Just need a *really* good
stopwatch. ;}

David A. Smith
So you say its really expanding a little? That sound reasonable since the
rest of the universe is expanding.
KOH.


--
Gravity Measurement

http://home.no.net/knutove/gravity/indexg.html

(formerly) wrote:

Dear Knut Ove Hauge:

"Knut Ove Hauge" wrote in message
...

All agree that the universe is expanding. But what about the solar
system. Is it expanding too? And if it is, is the distance to the moon
increasing?


The Moon is receding from the Earth.
Some planets are receding from the Sun, and at least one is not.

David A. Smith
Thanks for your answer.
KOH


--
Gravity Measurement

http://home.no.net/knutove/gravity/indexg.html

Dear Knut Ove Hauge:

"Knut Ove Hauge" wrote in message
...


(formerly) wrote:
....
I'm fairly sure (i.e. probably wrong :-) that even if the solar system
was expanding we wouldn't be able to measure it yet.


If you mean Hubble's parameter, yes we could measure it. It is "only"
10^-11 change per year, a little less than the LLR recession rate.
Assuming that no other "Universal constant" were changing, recession
values of this magnitude have been observed. And the opposite motion,
reduction in orbital diameters have been noted of this magnitude.

In the case of the planets, I believe monitoring the orbital period is
an
accurate method of "ampifying" changes, if any. Just need a *really*
good
stopwatch. ;}


So you say its really expanding a little? That sound reasonable since the
rest of the universe is expanding.

Not all the bodies orbiting the Sun are receding. Any local changes in
physical laws are limited to less than the Hubble parameter. The evidence
of expansion is based on a change in Universal mass/energy density. The
Hubble parameter expresses this rate-of-change pretty nicely. Our solar
system is losing mass at the rate of 10^-14 per year (from the Sun), which
is much less than the Hubble parameter.

Our solar system is apparently not expanding. Binary pulsars are
apparently not expanding.

David A. Smith