2006 Solar Eclipse

Anyone planning on travelling to see the 2006 total
eclipse should be aware that unless policy changes,
US passports will in invalid for travel to Libya, under
an executive order imposed by President Reagan in
1981. A US passport may not be used to travel to,
through, or in Libya. The greatest eclipse will be in
Libya.

When I was in the Cayman Islands, we were told that they give out passports
to travellers that want them. Frequently, travellers use those passports to
go to Cuba or other countries that the government doesn't let us travel to.
So, you might want to go there first...

-- Michael S.
"Charles Newman" e wrote in
message ...

Anyone planning on travelling to see the 2006 total
eclipse should be aware that unless policy changes,
US passports will in invalid for travel to Libya, under
an executive order imposed by President Reagan in
1981. A US passport may not be used to travel to,
through, or in Libya. The greatest eclipse will be in
Libya.

In article ,
Charles Newman e wrote:

Anyone planning on travelling to see the 2006 total eclipse should be
aware that unless policy changes, US passports will in invalid for
travel to Libya, under an executive order imposed by President Reagan
in 1981. A US passport may not be used to travel to, through, or in
Libya. The greatest eclipse will be in Libya.

Isn't it nice to have your passport issued by "the country of freedom"?
evil grin

My own passport says "This passport is valid for travel to all
countries". Yep, all countries - no exceptions. Of course, some
countries might object to me wanting to go there, but at least my own
country and my own government thinks it's my own business and not
their business which country I'd like to go to....

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://www.stjarnhimlen.se/
http://home.tiscali.se/pausch/

"Paul Schlyter" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Charles Newman e wrote:

Anyone planning on travelling to see the 2006 total eclipse should be
aware that unless policy changes, US passports will in invalid for
travel to Libya, under an executive order imposed by President Reagan
in 1981. A US passport may not be used to travel to, through, or in
Libya. The greatest eclipse will be in Libya.

Isn't it nice to have your passport issued by "the country of freedom"?
evil grin

My own passport says "This passport is valid for travel to all
countries". Yep, all countries - no exceptions. Of course, some
countries might object to me wanting to go there, but at least my own
country and my own government thinks it's my own business and not
their business which country I'd like to go to....

The Swedish government would not agree with you. While
I don't think they have any travel restrictions are present,
they have issued them in the past and are certainly capable
of doing so in the future. The exact wording written on your
passport is largely irrelevant.

Bruce

Bruce Sterling Woodcock wrote:

"Paul Schlyter" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Charles Newman e wrote:

Anyone planning on travelling to see the 2006 total eclipse should be
aware that unless policy changes, US passports will in invalid for
travel to Libya, under an executive order imposed by President Reagan
in 1981. A US passport may not be used to travel to, through, or in
Libya. The greatest eclipse will be in Libya.

Isn't it nice to have your passport issued by "the country of freedom"?
evil grin

My own passport says "This passport is valid for travel to all
countries". Yep, all countries - no exceptions. Of course, some
countries might object to me wanting to go there, but at least my own
country and my own government thinks it's my own business and not
their business which country I'd like to go to....

The Swedish government would not agree with you. While
I don't think they have any travel restrictions are present,
they have issued them in the past and are certainly capable
of doing so in the future. The exact wording written on your
passport is largely irrelevant.


In my german / EU passport is a section "Countries for which this passport
is valid" there is written : " For all countries " ( in three languages ).

Our foreign office sometimes issues travel warnings for specific countries,
but you may still travel to these countries. It is not forbidden, you do it
at your own risk.

Sven Hegewisch

In article ,
Bruce Sterling Woodcock wrote:

"Paul Schlyter" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Charles Newman e wrote:

Anyone planning on travelling to see the 2006 total eclipse should be
aware that unless policy changes, US passports will in invalid for
travel to Libya, under an executive order imposed by President Reagan
in 1981. A US passport may not be used to travel to, through, or in
Libya. The greatest eclipse will be in Libya.

Isn't it nice to have your passport issued by "the country of freedom"?
evil grin

My own passport says "This passport is valid for travel to all
countries". Yep, all countries - no exceptions. Of course, some
countries might object to me wanting to go there, but at least my own
country and my own government thinks it's my own business and not
their business which country I'd like to go to....

The Swedish government would not agree with you. While
I don't think they have any travel restrictions are present,
they have issued them in the past

I'm not aware of any such restrictions ever having been issued at
least in modern times (some centuries ago matter were very different
though: most people were then not allowed to go abroad at all....).

Could you please tell me when such a restriction was issued last by
the Swedish government, directed towards Swedish citizens? And, if I
went there anyway, would I be fined, or jailed, upon returning to
Sweden? Which country was the restriction about?

Or are you perhaps confusing this with the WARNINGS our government
sometimes issues against travelling to some parts of the world?
Well, those warnings simply means that if you go there it's all on
your own risk. So if you get into serious trouble, our government
may be unable to help you. But if you go there despite the warning,
and successfully return home, you will NOT be punished by our
government in any way!

Now compare that to a US citizen going to Cuba (not Guantanamo Bay
but to the Cuban parts of Cuba!) and then returning safely back to the
US -- what will his country do to him?

and are certainly capable of doing so in the future.

:-) ...in principle true (one never knows what will happen in
the future -- we might even get a dictatorship here, who knows?)
although extremely unlikely....

The exact wording written on your passport is largely irrelevant.

Does that mean if the passport of a US citisen says e.g.

"This passport is valid for travel to all countries except
Cuba
Mainland China
North Korea
North Vietnam"

then that US citizen can ignore those words and go there anyway,
using the argument "I live in a free country and I decide myself
where I want to go" ? g

(in the 1970's US passports contained a phrase like that. Later
Jimmy Carter removed those restrictions, and for some time US
citizens were actually allowed, by their government, to travel to any
country in the world. But I think Ronald Reagan changed that...)

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://www.stjarnhimlen.se/
http://home.tiscali.se/pausch/

"Bruce Sterling Woodcock" wrote in sci.astro:


The Swedish government would not agree with you. While
I don't think they have any travel restrictions are present,
they have issued them in the past and are certainly capable
of doing so in the future. The exact wording written on your
passport is largely irrelevant.

I think it means that in every country your passport will be regarded as a
valid travel document making it possible for each country to identify you.
I don't think it means that you're _welcome_ in every country.

--
CeeBee


Uxbridge: "By God, sir, I've lost my leg!"
Wellington: "By God, sir, so you have!"


Google CeeBee @ www.geocities.com/ceebee_2

"Paul Schlyter" wrote in message
...
Could you please tell me when such a restriction was issued last by
the Swedish government, directed towards Swedish citizens? And, if I
went there anyway, would I be fined, or jailed, upon returning to
Sweden? Which country was the restriction about?

No, I can't. You might contact your government about that.

Or are you perhaps confusing this with the WARNINGS our government
sometimes issues against travelling to some parts of the world?

No, I'm not.

Now compare that to a US citizen going to Cuba (not Guantanamo Bay
but to the Cuban parts of Cuba!) and then returning safely back to the
US -- what will his country do to him?

I'm not familiar with the exact punishment so I don't know... while
jail time is probably an option, my guess is he'd simply have his
passport revoked and be given a hefty fine.

and are certainly capable of doing so in the future.

:-) ...in principle true (one never knows what will happen in
the future -- we might even get a dictatorship here, who knows?)
although extremely unlikely....

I'm talking the powers of your current government, not
a dictatorship. Your implication was that Sweden's
government doesn't or can't do such things, when in fact
it certainly can. The fact it might not currently is no
fair basis for moral comparison.

The exact wording written on your passport is largely irrelevant.

Does that mean if the passport of a US citisen says e.g.

"This passport is valid for travel to all countries except
Cuba
Mainland China
North Korea
North Vietnam"

then that US citizen can ignore those words and go there anyway,
using the argument "I live in a free country and I decide myself
where I want to go" ? g

Close. Using the argument of "They just passed a law /
created a rule that says otherwise, and it's not going to
magically appear printed on this old document." they
can decide to go to countries they couldn't before, or
not go to countries they could before.

That's the point. Laws change, and what's written on
your passport doesn't entitle you to what it says in
perpetuity.

Bruce

In article ,
Bruce Sterling Woodcock wrote:

"Paul Schlyter" wrote in message
...
Could you please tell me when such a restriction was issued last by
the Swedish government, directed towards Swedish citizens? And, if I
went there anyway, would I be fined, or jailed, upon returning to
Sweden? Which country was the restriction about?

No, I can't. You might contact your government about that.

It hasn't been like that for all the years I've had a Swedish passport
at least -- all the passports I've ever had allowed be to travel
to any country.

Now, you claimed that the Swedish government has had restrictions
about which countries they would allow their citizens to visit. What
was your source of that "information"? You seem unable to give even
approximate years when this last happened.

Or are you perhaps confusing this with the WARNINGS our government
sometimes issues against travelling to some parts of the world?

No, I'm not.

Now compare that to a US citizen going to Cuba (not Guantanamo Bay
but to the Cuban parts of Cuba!) and then returning safely back to the
US -- what will his country do to him?

I'm not familiar with the exact punishment so I don't know... while
jail time is probably an option, my guess is he'd simply have his
passport revoked and be given a hefty fine.

and are certainly capable of doing so in the future.

:-) ...in principle true (one never knows what will happen in
the future -- we might even get a dictatorship here, who knows?)
although extremely unlikely....

I'm talking the powers of your current government, not a dictatorship.
Your implication was that Sweden's government doesn't

True....

or can't do such things, when in fact it certainly can.

Well, in principle it certainly can, but then it's no longer really a
democratic government....

The fact it might not currently is no fair basis for moral comparison.

It's just not "currently" -- it hasn't done so as far as I can
remember. Perhaps they did so during WWII or earlier, but not later.

The exact wording written on your passport is largely irrelevant.

Does that mean if the passport of a US citisen says e.g.

"This passport is valid for travel to all countries except
Cuba
Mainland China
North Korea
North Vietnam"

then that US citizen can ignore those words and go there anyway,
using the argument "I live in a free country and I decide myself
where I want to go" ? g

Close. Using the argument of "They just passed a law /
created a rule that says otherwise, and it's not going to
magically appear printed on this old document." they
can decide to go to countries they couldn't before, or
not go to countries they could before.

That's the point. Laws change, and what's written on
your passport doesn't entitle you to what it says in
perpetuity.

FYI: passports aren't valid indefinitely either --- they must be
renewed regularly (I need to renew my passport every 10 years for
instance). And hopefully the text in the passport reflects the state
of the law at least when the passport was issued....


I remember another, related, thing btw: I once saw a passport
application form for US citizens -- there the passport applicant had
to fill in to which country he'd like to travel and when. I never
had to give such details when I applied for a passport. I usually
apply for a new one when the old one is about to expire, even if I
don't have any immediate travel plans -- it's convenient to always
have a valid passport.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://www.stjarnhimlen.se/
http://home.tiscali.se/pausch/

"Paul Schlyter" wrote in message
...
Now, you claimed that the Swedish government has had restrictions
about which countries they would allow their citizens to visit. What
was your source of that "information"? You seem unable to give even
approximate years when this last happened.

The source is your government, but as I said, I don't have the
details. You'd need to talk to them and do some research.

I'm talking the powers of your current government, not a dictatorship.
Your implication was that Sweden's government doesn't

True....

or can't do such things, when in fact it certainly can.

Well, in principle it certainly can, but then it's no longer really a
democratic government....

Then you've created a circular argument; i.e. "A democratic
government doesn't restrict travel; if it restricts travel, it can't
be democratic..." This is ultimately a very odd definition of
what a democratic government is.

Now, perhaps you would simply say you're trying to show
levels on a continuum of democratic government, with more
restrictive travel on one end and less on the other. I would
certainly agree that's indicative of some measure of freedom
(not necessarily a democratic one), but I would then say, as
I did before, that since both governments are empowered
and capable of the same restrictions, it's not fair to call one
less democratic/free/whatever simply because on government
is exercising such power and the other is not. The two
*governments* are surely equivalent, although their
current office holders may not be.

The fact it might not currently is no fair basis for moral comparison.

It's just not "currently" -- it hasn't done so as far as I can
remember. Perhaps they did so during WWII or earlier, but not later.

And had Nazi Germany survived, they might not have killed any
Jews since WWII. That wouldn't suddenly give the government
the moral high ground.

That's the point. Laws change, and what's written on
your passport doesn't entitle you to what it says in
perpetuity.

FYI: passports aren't valid indefinitely either --- they must be
renewed regularly (I need to renew my passport every 10 years for
instance). And hopefully the text in the passport reflects the state
of the law at least when the passport was issued....

FYI: I know, but you're quibbling. It doesn't entitle you to
what it says for 10 years, either. It entitles you to whatever
the law or current regulations are, until those change.

This is all pretty off-topic to sci.astro.

Bruce