The Void in The Void

My theory: A long time ago there was a planet at the center of this
place, and they had a supercollider like CERN; and they though it might
be fun to make a quantum black hole, like CERN is planning to:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?ali...modsrc=reuters

Pat ;-)

Pat Flannery wrote:
My theory: A long time ago there was a planet at the center of this
place, and they had a supercollider like CERN; and they though it
might be fun to make a quantum black hole, like CERN is planning to:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?ali...modsrc=reuters


Pat ;-)

The link to the images has moved; here's the new link:
http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2007/coldspot/

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:


Pat Flannery wrote:
My theory: A long time ago there was a planet at the center of this
place, and they had a supercollider like CERN; and they though it
might be fun to make a quantum black hole, like CERN is planning to:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?ali...modsrc=reuters


Pat ;-)

The link to the images has moved; here's the new link:
http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2007/coldspot/

Pat

If it had all disappeared into a black hole, its mass would still be
detectable, but appears not to be.

It must be very gravitationally flat out there - just the place for
performing those low g experiments. No need to rush - plenty of room for
all.

Sylvia.

Sylvia Else wrote in
u:

Pat Flannery wrote:

If it had all disappeared into a black hole, its mass would still be
detectable, but appears not to be.

It must be very gravitationally flat out there - just the place for
performing those low g experiments. No need to rush - plenty of room
for all.

That sounds like quantum observability; the area's so empty that
any experiment's mass could compromise the "flatness".

Intriguing, though; the closest thing yet to an absolute vacuum.
Sounds kinda lonely..and spooky...

--Damon

Sylvia Else wrote:

If it had all disappeared into a black hole, its mass would still be
detectable, but appears not to be.

It must be very gravitationally flat out there - just the place for
performing those low g experiments. No need to rush - plenty of room
for all.

The disturbing thing is that there should be dark matter in that region
if the collapsed hyperspace dimensions theory is right.
The fact that their appears to be _nothing at all there_, including dark
matter, indicates that there is a fundamental problem with our theory of
how the basic concept of the universe works.
On the up side, it indicates that whatever is going on there isn't
propagating across the universe at the speed of light, as otherwise our
first clue that something was going wrong would be the Earth ceasing to
exist inside of a second as the wavefront of the collapsing dimensions
ran through our solar system a the speed of light, coming at the same
speed we could detect its effects. But at the same time, a huge area of
space where even dark matter doesn't exist is very disconcerting as
regards the basic stability of the entire universe, and it bears
watching as to see if it is growing or decreasing in size.
Things like this lead to Nobel prizes, and a further realization that we
haven't even got a real clue as to what's going on around here when it
comes right down to it.
Sooner or later they will come up with "The Theory Of Everything" that
fits the observations perfectly, and at that point it will seem so
obvious that all the physicists will be slapping themselves on the
forehead saying "Why didn't I see that before?!".
But I do get a kick out of the fact that after all these centuries of
trying to figure out the most basic rules of how reality really works,
it's still pretty much like the four blind people grabbing the various
parts of the elephant, and each defining it by their own interpretation.
I drink a toast to The Great Unknown...life wouldn't be half as much fun
without it. :-D

Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:


Sylvia Else wrote:

If it had all disappeared into a black hole, its mass would still be
detectable, but appears not to be.

It must be very gravitationally flat out there - just the place for
performing those low g experiments. No need to rush - plenty of room
for all.

The disturbing thing is that there should be dark matter in that region
if the collapsed hyperspace dimensions theory is right.
The fact that their appears to be _nothing at all there_, including dark
matter, indicates that there is a fundamental problem with our theory of
how the basic concept of the universe works.
On the up side, it indicates that whatever is going on there isn't
propagating across the universe at the speed of light, as otherwise our
first clue that something was going wrong would be the Earth ceasing to
exist inside of a second as the wavefront of the collapsing dimensions
ran through our solar system a the speed of light, coming at the same
speed we could detect its effects. But at the same time, a huge area of
space where even dark matter doesn't exist is very disconcerting as
regards the basic stability of the entire universe, and it bears
watching as to see if it is growing or decreasing in size.
Things like this lead to Nobel prizes, and a further realization that we
haven't even got a real clue as to what's going on around here when it
comes right down to it.
Sooner or later they will come up with "The Theory Of Everything" that
fits the observations perfectly, and at that point it will seem so
obvious that all the physicists will be slapping themselves on the
forehead saying "Why didn't I see that before?!".
But I do get a kick out of the fact that after all these centuries of
trying to figure out the most basic rules of how reality really works,
it's still pretty much like the four blind people grabbing the various
parts of the elephant, and each defining it by their own interpretation.
I drink a toast to The Great Unknown...life wouldn't be half as much fun
without it. :-D

Pat

Maybe the big bang started with a cavity in it. Why? No reason - just did.

I'd expect even a TOE to contain constants describing the initial
conditions.

Sylvia.

Sylvia Else wrote:

Maybe the big bang started with a cavity in it. Why? No reason - just
did.

I'd expect even a TOE to contain constants describing the initial
conditions.

You'd expect the cavity to be located at the center; apparently it's
off-center.
That in itself is odd, and causes ramifications as regards to our
universe's creation.
Wherever it came from, it apparently didn't come out of a perfectly
symmetrical pre-creation; apparently nothing in creation is of an ideal
uniform form, and everything is a little asymmetrical back to the time
before our time itself existed.
So much for Platonic perfect forms. :-)


Pat

Pat Flannery wrote:


Sylvia Else wrote:

Maybe the big bang started with a cavity in it. Why? No reason - just
did.

I'd expect even a TOE to contain constants describing the initial
conditions.

You'd expect the cavity to be located at the center; apparently it's
off-center.

Does centre have any meaning in this context?

That in itself is odd, and causes ramifications as regards to our
universe's creation.
Wherever it came from, it apparently didn't come out of a perfectly
symmetrical pre-creation; apparently nothing in creation is of an ideal
uniform form, and everything is a little asymmetrical back to the time
before our time itself existed.
So much for Platonic perfect forms. :-)


Well, anyway, after I posted my suggestion about a cavity, I got to
wondering whether it could survive events prior to inflation, when there
was time for all sorts of stuff to be rattling around. Even if there
were some downstream consequences of its initial existence, one wouldn't
expect it to be empty now.

Sylvia.

Sylvia Else wrote:

Does centre have any meaning in this context?

You'd think it sort of radiated from one central point in a spherical
form as it expanded; the problem with that is the original emanation
point of the whole universe could be smaller than a atom - so that the
position of the charges in the electron shells of that atom, or what's
going on in its nucleus at the nanosecond of the universes' creation,
though infinitesimal in itself, could have huge ramifications in regards
in to what the universe it breeds is like.
The universe comes into existence the way it did, and the void is up in
Eridani; one ten billionth of a second later, and it's somewhere else,
and all of our history changes... there isn't a sun here, nor its
planets, and we aren't writing about this...because we never were.
Thank chaos theory for small favors. :-D

Pat

It's the MacLeish Void:

And there, there overhead, there, there hung over
Those thousands of white faces, those dazed eyes,
There in the starless dark, the poise, the hover,
There with vast wings across the cancelled skies,
There in the sudden blackness the black pall
Of nothing, nothing, nothing -- nothing at all.

-- Archibald MacLeish