So, what kind of 'life' should we plant on Mars?

El Guapo wrote:

"John Popelish" wrote in message
...
Jonathan wrote:

What kinds of life could thrive on the current surface of Mars?

I suppose the first question would be to find thermal vents
that could melt water...smokers?

You have skipped a few steps. First we need to decide if we should
contaminate another planet with Earth life, at all. How would you
feel about life forms from some other planet deciding that Earth
should be seeded with their kind of life?

Assuming Earth was as barren as Mars seems to be, I would welcome it. Well,
not really, because in that case I wouldn't be around to actually welcome
anybody, but you know what I mean.

We haven't looked closely enough to say how barren it actually is. We
are just at the beginning of a long process that might determine how
barren it is. It is only very recently that we have learned that life
thrives miles down inside the "solid rock" of Earth. I think we
should have looked at least that closely before we decide to do
something as irreversible as seeding another planet with Earth life.

--
John Popelish

"John Popelish" wrote in message
...
El Guapo wrote:

"John Popelish" wrote in message
...
Jonathan wrote:

What kinds of life could thrive on the current surface of Mars?

I suppose the first question would be to find thermal vents
that could melt water...smokers?

You have skipped a few steps. First we need to decide if we should
contaminate another planet with Earth life, at all. How would you
feel about life forms from some other planet deciding that Earth
should be seeded with their kind of life?

Assuming Earth was as barren as Mars seems to be, I would welcome it.
Well,
not really, because in that case I wouldn't be around to actually
welcome
anybody, but you know what I mean.

We haven't looked closely enough to say how barren it actually is. We
are just at the beginning of a long process that might determine how
barren it is. It is only very recently that we have learned that life
thrives miles down inside the "solid rock" of Earth. I think we
should have looked at least that closely before we decide to do
something as irreversible as seeding another planet with Earth life.

Yeah, there could be some bacteria like life there. If so, there's no
question that we would want to study it well before trying to "seed" the
planet with Earth life, because that could provide important information as
to the origin of life, DNA structure (or something different?), and so on.
Ultimately, though, that wouldn't (and shouldn't) stop us from putting Earth
life on Mars permanently, or terraforming the planet, if that becomes
feasible in the future. Jonathan is way ahead of himself, as usual, with
the suggestion that this is something we could or should do now.
Eventually, though, it will probably happen, even if it's long after all of
us here are gone.

In sci.space.policy El Guapo wrote:

Yeah, there could be some bacteria like life there. If so, there's no

nope. that would be singularily odd.

question that we would want to study it well before trying to "seed" the
planet with Earth life, because that could provide important information as
to the origin of life, DNA structure (or something different?), and so on.
Ultimately, though, that wouldn't (and shouldn't) stop us from putting Earth
life on Mars permanently, or terraforming the planet, if that becomes
feasible in the future. Jonathan is way ahead of himself, as usual, with
the suggestion that this is something we could or should do now.
Eventually, though, it will probably happen, even if it's long after all of
us here are gone.


Want to provide any rationale at all for seeding Mars with Earth life?

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

"Sander Vesik" wrote in message
...
In sci.space.policy El Guapo wrote:

Yeah, there could be some bacteria like life there. If so, there's no

nope. that would be singularily odd.

Really? Why? Microbial life dates from at least 3.5 billion years ago on
Earth. We have no definite understanding of how it came into existence.
Today we can find bacteria living even under the harshest conditions. To
date, there's no solid evidence of life on Mars. But to say that it would
be "singularly odd" if we found life there? That seems premature.

question that we would want to study it well before trying to "seed" the
planet with Earth life, because that could provide important information
as
to the origin of life, DNA structure (or something different?), and so
on.
Ultimately, though, that wouldn't (and shouldn't) stop us from putting
Earth
life on Mars permanently, or terraforming the planet, if that becomes
feasible in the future. Jonathan is way ahead of himself, as usual,
with
the suggestion that this is something we could or should do now.
Eventually, though, it will probably happen, even if it's long after all
of
us here are gone.

Want to provide any rationale at all for seeding Mars with Earth life?

Because we can? Room to grow? Hedging our bets? Assuming that humans are
around long enough to develop the necessary technology, believe me, we will
eventually try.

In sci.space.policy El Guapo wrote:
"Sander Vesik" wrote in message
...
In sci.space.policy El Guapo wrote:

Yeah, there could be some bacteria like life there. If so, there's no

nope. that would be singularily odd.

Really? Why? Microbial life dates from at least 3.5 billion years ago on
Earth. We have no definite understanding of how it came into existence.
Today we can find bacteria living even under the harshest conditions. To
date, there's no solid evidence of life on Mars. But to say that it would
be "singularly odd" if we found life there? That seems premature.

Well, no - i think it would be singularily odd if what we found was bacterial
life - if there really only ever was (or is!) bacterial life on Mars I would
expect us to only find secondary evidence until we can drill very deep on Mars,
if ever at all.


question that we would want to study it well before trying to "seed" the
planet with Earth life, because that could provide important information
as
to the origin of life, DNA structure (or something different?), and so
on.
Ultimately, though, that wouldn't (and shouldn't) stop us from putting
Earth
life on Mars permanently, or terraforming the planet, if that becomes
feasible in the future. Jonathan is way ahead of himself, as usual,
with
the suggestion that this is something we could or should do now.
Eventually, though, it will probably happen, even if it's long after all
of
us here are gone.

Want to provide any rationale at all for seeding Mars with Earth life?

Because we can? Room to grow? Hedging our bets? Assuming that humans are
around long enough to develop the necessary technology, believe me, we will
eventually try.


See, the problem is that as things stand, such seeding is useless - earth life just
dies and no real seeding takes place. as mars is, its useless. Simply because
there is *NO* way to establish any kind of foodchain. Even if you couls seed it
with radioudrans or similar, you would not gain anything (and i think the
main problem radiodurans would have to face is one of food).

It does not allow you to hedge any bets at all.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

"Sander Vesik" wrote in message
...
In sci.space.policy El Guapo wrote:
"Sander Vesik" wrote in message
...
In sci.space.policy El Guapo wrote:

Yeah, there could be some bacteria like life there. If so, there's no

nope. that would be singularily odd.

Really? Why? Microbial life dates from at least 3.5 billion years ago on
Earth. We have no definite understanding of how it came into existence.
Today we can find bacteria living even under the harshest conditions. To
date, there's no solid evidence of life on Mars. But to say that it would
be "singularly odd" if we found life there? That seems premature.

Well, no - i think it would be singularily odd if what we found was bacterial
life - if there really only ever was (or is!) bacterial life on Mars I would
expect us to only find secondary evidence until we can drill very deep on Mars,
if ever at all.


You've touched on the point I was trying to make with this thread.
The first life on earth is thought to be bacteria, and bacteria
associated with iron deposition. Such as sulfate reducing
bacteria, which thrives on Earth in low oxygen
and salty environments such as those found deep
underground or in wells.

The surface of Mars is low oxygen and very saline.
So the .....surface...of Mars has conditions quite
like underground on earth.

So we would expect such bacteria on Mars
near the surface, not deep underground. Such
bacteria leaves behind lots of iron and sulfates.
Guess what? The surface of Mars is rich
is iron and sulfates.

Which is why the surface of Mars is....red.
Due to the activity of bacteria imho.



"It is this common association of microbes and iron
deposition on earth that has spurred hopes that robot
crafts exploring the hematite anomaly of Mars' Meridiani
Planum might find evidence for ancient life. The
hematite deposits of Meridiani Planum [7], regardless of
their exact origin, are considered to be a favorable host
for microorganisms that might have been associated
with their formation [8]."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2004/pdf/1369.pdf










question that we would want to study it well before trying to "seed" the
planet with Earth life, because that could provide important information
as
to the origin of life, DNA structure (or something different?), and so
on.
Ultimately, though, that wouldn't (and shouldn't) stop us from putting
Earth
life on Mars permanently, or terraforming the planet, if that becomes
feasible in the future. Jonathan is way ahead of himself, as usual,
with
the suggestion that this is something we could or should do now.
Eventually, though, it will probably happen, even if it's long after all
of
us here are gone.

Want to provide any rationale at all for seeding Mars with Earth life?

Because we can? Room to grow? Hedging our bets? Assuming that humans are
around long enough to develop the necessary technology, believe me, we will
eventually try.


See, the problem is that as things stand, such seeding is useless - earth life just
dies and no real seeding takes place. as mars is, its useless. Simply because
there is *NO* way to establish any kind of foodchain. Even if you couls seed it
with radioudrans or similar, you would not gain anything (and i think the
main problem radiodurans would have to face is one of food).

It does not allow you to hedge any bets at all.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

"Jonathan" skrev i en meddelelse
...

"Sander Vesik" wrote in message
...

snip


Well, no - i think it would be singularily odd if what we found was
bacterial
life - if there really only ever was (or is!) bacterial life on Mars I
would
expect us to only find secondary evidence until we can drill very deep
on Mars,
if ever at all.


You've touched on the point I was trying to make with this thread.
The first life on earth is thought to be bacteria, and bacteria
associated with iron deposition.

Such as sulfate reducing
bacteria, which thrives on Earth in low oxygen
and salty environments such as those found deep
underground or in wells.

You often state that you don't know about geology. It shows when you write
something like that.

The surface of Mars is low oxygen and very saline.
So the .....surface...of Mars has conditions quite
like underground on earth.

No



snip

"Sander Vesik" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
See, the problem is that as things stand, such seeding is useless - earth life just
dies and no real seeding takes place. as mars is, its useless. Simply because
there is *NO* way to establish any kind of foodchain. Even if you couls seed it
with radioudrans or similar, you would not gain anything (and i think the
main problem radiodurans would have to face is one of food).
Typically, food chains start with plants. They only need sun, water and rock.
Or some other synthesizing organism using heat. Or the breaking down
of some complex chemicals. I think there are enough possibilities.

First, we establish our station. Then we do a picknick. Then we'll
see what happens to the leftovers.

Lots of Greetings!
Volker

In sci.space.policy Volker Hetzer wrote:

"Sander Vesik" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ...
See, the problem is that as things stand, such seeding is useless - earth life just
dies and no real seeding takes place. as mars is, its useless. Simply because
there is *NO* way to establish any kind of foodchain. Even if you couls seed it
with radioudrans or similar, you would not gain anything (and i think the
main problem radiodurans would have to face is one of food).
Typically, food chains start with plants. They only need sun, water and rock.

Well, not always - you can also start with cyanobacteria, thermal backteria
and lichen. One of these doesn't need Sun, all of these need water and
well extra stuff compared to just rock.

Lichen are the only ones that can do with just rock. And you still have a problem
of missing nitrates as atmosphere doesn't provide nitrogen.

PLants can only come as the second round.

Or some other synthesizing organism using heat. Or the breaking down
of some complex chemicals. I think there are enough possibilities.

but there are no complex chemicals on Mars and plenty of sterilising ones.
And no free water.


First, we establish our station. Then we do a picknick. Then we'll
see what happens to the leftovers.

rather uninteresting things.


Lots of Greetings!
Volker

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++