Anisotropy and Mercury (2)

"Max Keon" wrote in message
...
"George Dishman" wrote in message
...

Forgive me for starting a new thread, but the old one has become
fairly redundant due to the huge bulk of posts that seem to serve
no purpose other than to bury the thread under a layer of wader
depth bull****.

much snipped as there is a major probleme here

That means that any time, the acceleration adds an
amount to the velocity which is equal to the product
of the time and the acceleration. It doesn't add or
subtract from the radius, I don't know where you got
that idea.

For example, if an acceleration of 2m/s^2 acts for
50s then the velocity will change by 100m/s.

I'm inclined to think you actually believe that George, which is
a bit disconcerting.

I hadn't realised you had a problem with that. Of
course it is fundamental, the word acceleration
is defined as the rate of change of velocity and
is unarguable and the other equations you have
tried to use are all derived form this under
various conditions.

I'll snip the rest and concentrate on this major error, which is
obviously the root of all of the confusion.

What you say is true for Mercury while in its stable eccentric
orbit around the Sun, so long as the anisotropy isn't included.

What I said above is true for all objects changing
speed for any reason whatsoever under any circumstances.

Certainly _not_ under any circumstances George. Your calculations
apply for any normal trajectory taken by an object naturally
moving to or from a gravity source. The curved trajectory forms
a natural part of the orbit shape, regardless of whether or not
a complete orbit will eventually form. The only reason for it not
forming is that there is other matter in the universe. But in all
cases, the average radius per orbit, or potential orbit, remains
unchanged.

You of course agree that an object in a sustainable concentric
orbit around the Sun will not shorten the radius between it and
the Sun? You also agree that the radius will shorten at the full
gravity rate only if its orbital speed is zero. AND ONLY THEN?
The same of course applies for an eccentric orbit.

Do you reject any of that so far?

Centrifigal forces change at the rate of orbital speed squared,
so if Mercury was traveling at an average of 24000 m/sec instead
of the average 48000 m/sec, it would be restrained from falling
at the full rate by 24000^2 / 48000^2 = .25 of the .0395 m/sec^2
gravity rate. The fall rate is .25 * .0395 = 9.875e-3 m/sec^2.
I hope you can see that now.

If you weren't aware of that then obviously nothing
else I said will have made any sense to you so I can
see why the conversation has been so difficult.

The acceleration variations throughout Mercury's orbit cycle are
not really changing anything. Mercury is not permanently shifting
from its stable orbit path, and orbit velocity doesn't vary from
what is an integral part of the stable orbit structure.

Sorry Max, that isn't true. You said the anisotropy
causes an extra acceleration, it acts to displace
Mercury and since it is not directly along the path
but rather points towards the Sun, it changes the
direction as well as the speed.

You are claiming that the anisotropy will cause Mercury's orbital
speed to automatically change the moment that it's applied, which
is impossible.

It is what you have been telling me. "Acceleration" is
the rate at which speed changes and normally is given by

a = -GM / r^2

in Newtonian gravitation. You said that was changed to

a = -GM / r^2 * (1 + v/c)

where v is the radial component of the velocity. That is
what my program models and you have seen the consequences.

For example, if the pull of gravity is doubled,
Mercury's orbital speed doesn't magically increase to comply with
the change.

Right, but it's _acceleration_ changes immediately
and the speed is then the integral of that. The
speed at any instant is changing by the value of
the acceleration _at_that_time_.

There's no point in replying to the rest of your post until
this has all been cleared up. You are repeating the same old
mistakes over and over again, again.

The gravity force is pointing directly at the Sun, so unless
Mercury falls closer to the Sun on average its orbital speed
cannot be increased. Adding a new force does not change the pull
direction, so orbital speed cannot change from the normal unless
the average radial length changes. Can you now see that?

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Max Keon