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Old November 17th 12, 12:48 AM posted to sci.astro,sci.physics
Yousuf Khan[_2_]
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Default It seems that as Dark Energy increases, Dark Matter decreasesastime goes on

On 14/11/2012 10:50 PM, dlzc wrote:
Dear Yousuf Kahn:

On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:21:26 PM UTC-7, Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 14/11/2012 9:21 AM, dlzc wrote: We have no idea whether Dark
Matter is WIMPs, and since we've never seen WIMPs, then chances are
likely that they aren't. Not having seen WIMPs, we have no idea if
they interact and annihilate each other.


I don't expect there are either, but they would agree with this
observation.


Except we should be seeing a lot of gamma rays from DarkMatter
annihilation events in the distant universe. The Gamma ray events are so
far all just normal supernovas, quasars, etc.

I can't see highly ionized normal matter being enough to explain
Dark Matter either. There simply can't be enough to make up the
shortfall,


There was, even before we saw all the ionized gas between stars and
between galaxies, and the fields of individual stars in intergalactic
space... not allocated to galaxies. This does stagnate the mass in
planet-mass-and-larger black holes, however, as they would tend to
increase Dark Matter in forward time...


I don't get what you're saying here. Are you saying that there are
planet-mass blackholes in intergalactic space making up the Dark Matter?
That would mean the MACHO model of Dark Matter.

although it might be able to make up some small percentage of it.


I understand you are not convinced.

So if DM is not either of these things,


Just because you are not convinced, does not mean you can throw them
out.


I don't believe we'll find any one thing likely to be called Dark Matter
(whether it be WIMPs, MACHOs, or just missing baryonic matter), nor will
any combination of them be enough to account for all of the effect. My
feeling is that the majority of the effect is just a reshaping of the
gravitational force effects.

then it's got to be an effect of vacuum energy, just like DE is
supposed to be.


That tool is blunted, as previously discussed. The "energy", and the
nature of that "energy" was unchanged.


No, Dark Energy and Dark Matter might be just an exchange of negative
energy (gravitational pull) for positive energy (accelerated expansion),
and vice-versa. All of the matter in the universe is made of positive
energy, while all of its gravitational pull is made of negative energy.
In the Inflationary period, a large amount of positive push energy
pushed the universe out very quickly, and then that positive energy got
converted into matter which reduced the positive energy's runaway
pushing by locking it up. That then gave the negative gravitational
energy, which is normally very randomized and spread out, enough
breathing space to take hold of the universe and begin slowing it down
again. Then virtual particles (which are also matter and anti-matter,
thus made of positive energy) would start releasing positive energy into
intergalactic voids to begin another, albeit smaller, pushing effort again.

Inflation occurred before matter appeared, thus the entire positive
energy reserve was used to push the universe out. When matter appeared,
the universe's pushing era ended, because it got locked up into
matter/antimatter. Now in the present stated of the universe, some of
that matter/antimatter creates a mini-re-emergence of positive push era
again: not as large or as spectacular as the Inflationary era, but still
a sort of push era.

Scientists thought that Dark Matter should remain more or less
the same in magnitude, since it's supposedly a type of matter,
while the Dark Energy component grows. But they're finding that
the Dark Matter component might have been higher in the past
than it is now.


If that is the case, then Dark Matter cannot be a type of
stable particle, it is just another form of fleeting energy
like Dark Energy is.


Doesn't follow.


Dark Matter shouldn't go up and down in magnitude,


Sure can, as discussed above. WIMPs interact to become normal, and
ionized (therefore dark) becomes less so.


If WIMPs interact with each other and annihilate, then they won't become
normal baryonic matter, they will become gamma ray photons, thus not
stable matter.

only forms of energy can do that by transforming between one type
and another.


Doesn't matter what type, both are attractive in GR, as both must act
like mass "in the large".


Not if the types of energy are negative energy vs. positive. Negative
energy is just what we normally call gravitation, thus its opposite form
of energy is positive energy which is a push-type energy.

Matter is mostly stuck in its own form most of the time.


Nope. Interacting, forming stars and planets, reaching ground state,
heck even micro black holes evaporating... plenty easy to become less
Dark.


I meant matter is stuck being baryons most of the time. I don't mean
whether they become stars or planets or stuff like that. They stay
pretty stably in the form of baryons.

Dark Energy is not energy, in the Standard Model. And somehow
*less* Dark Energy, produced the initial inflation?


Well, we're not talking about Big Bang conditions, at that time,
it's likely the energy at that time was all converted to a
push-type energy before settling down to become pull-type again.


I am unconvinced. I see no mechanism. Dark Energy and Dark Matter
are tied down at the time of CMBR emissions, really not much wiggle
room.


As stated above, the Inflationary epoch was when Dark Energy managed to
runaway unhindered since matter hadn't formed yet to lock it down into a
self-contained crystallized form.


Yousuf Khan