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Old February 19th 05, 02:26 AM
Charleston
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"Herb Schaltegger" wrote:
"Charleston" wrote:

Personally, I
can see plenty of black smoke up to about 3.4 seconds, and subsequently I
see significant diffuse smoke brightly illuminated by the light of the
SRB
flames. Also, I conclude that the "STS 51-L JSC Visual Data Analysis
Sub-Team" and the team at LMSC got it right when they saw smoke and
"solid
material" as late as 45 seconds emanating from the same region of the
vehicle. Unfortuantely, they were overruled by the film team at KSC. As
you probably know, it is KSC's views that are reflected in the final
Presidential Commission report.


Okay, Daniel - you've explained what it is you perceive in the footage
you've provided and you've indicated your agreement with a
later-overruled/discredited/under-appreciated/whatever view held by a
JSC sub-team.


"later overuled" The JSC Sub-Team I spoke of stood by their report which
was published in June 1986, and they did so only after receiving the final
EA (Enhancement/Analysis) report from LMSC (one of many outside groups
called in by NASA to help with the photo analysis). The folks at KSC
wielded the real power on the Photo and TV Support Team. They based their
conclusions and thus their report on preliminary EA work, which was done
with inferior photographic products.

from http://history.nasa.gov/rogersrep/v3appn.htm (page N-81) we have:

"The analyses were hampered in this initial stage (2 weeks after the
accident) by the lack of suitable photographic materials to support digital
analysis. All organizations reported problems in digitizing from the
cut-film transparencies and most resorted to digitizing from 8 x 10 positive
prints or abandoned the effort entirely. Exxon and one other laboratory had
contact transparencies of E60 and E63 and performed analyses of the smoke at
launch."

Herb, the KSC Photo Team obeyed a capricious Presidential Commission (PC)
deadline. That deadline was extended, in any event, at the request of NASA
to address late breaking events like recovering an SRB piece with a hole
burned through it. The Photo and TV Support Team could have elected to
amend their report as others did. They chose not to do so despite receiving
the final report from LMSC in early April.

http://history.nasa.gov/rogersrep/v3appn.htm (page N-81)
"c. Results

The results of these follow-on analyses were received in the mid-March to
early-April timeframe and generally have not been analyzed and consolidated
for this report **PC Report**. The findings do, however, generally
corroborate the integrated timeline events when the analyses pertain to a
particular event."

To me at least, "generally corroborate" is a far cry from out right
contradict, but that is what the final LMSC report does--contradict the PC
report. It is also what the flight photography does. Of course the final
PC report could only be as good as the data upon which it was based and
basing a Presidential report on preliminary data from early April, when the
report is not due on the President's desk until June 9th, seems decidedly
foolhardy, or something worse, deceitful.

"discredited" I would say the discredited team was working at KSC and they
are "discredited" because they chose to draw conclusions before all of the
facts were in and to not amend their report when confronted by JSC with said
facts based on better photographic products.

"under-appreciated" Well, you'd have to ask the JSC team. I believe them to
be honest and hard working having spoken to one of the team members myself.

However, I'm now forced to ask a question that keeps popping up in my
mind: why does it matter?


Nah, don't let me force you into anything, please;-)

In other words, what's the significance of
your view as opposed to the views and conclusions contained within the
Presidential Commission report?


Well it is pretty simple. If there is smoke up until at least T+45 seconds
(JSC/LMSC conclusion) then it is likely that there was always smoke. If
there was always smoke, it is difficult to believe the SRB field joint did
in fact reseal. If in fact the SRB field joint did not reseal then it is
difficult to believe that there was nothing more than smoke for 58 seconds
or so. Stated differently, the evidence suggests to me that the early smoke
seen at lift-off was not from an SRB filed joint leak at all and if that is
the case the real question is where did the smoke really originate?

Go ahead OM throw rocks and smoke jokes. I will try to throw objective
opinion based on overlooked facts from overlooked reports and overlooked
photography that does not seem so very "crappy" to me. Oh, and please don't
forget that I can examine the facts fairly decently ala Apollo 1/204. I am
not drawing any conclusions as to what ultimately happened but more research
is warranted and that is what I am doing. Please consider this an update.
Thanks.

Daniel