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Old September 14th 18, 11:17 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
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Default Falcon 9 Block 5 update

In article ,
says...

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...
Yeah, the ULA "solution" seems like what I'd expect from a traditional
vendor.

I mean they're right, physically the engines are the most expensive
components. And I'm not surprised their reaction is, "Let's work on the
most expensive HARDWARE" and not really look at it from an entire systems
POV like SpaceX and Blue Horizon has, which is the entire system.
Sure, you get the engines back... but you need an expensive aircraft for
every recovery. SpaceX only needs a drone ship for some of their
recoveries. I'd be curious to see which is cheaper to operate. The
helicopter only needs to be in flight for a couple of hours, but aircraft
hours are very expensive. The drone ships are probably very cheap to
operate
on an hourly basis, but need to be in operation for more hours.


Don't forget the expensive separation system to get the engines with all
their plumbing, electrical connections, structure, and etc. to cleanly
separate. That's going to be hard to develop, complex to operate, and
prone to "little" failures. All those connections had better separate
cleanly (especially the plumbing). Anything that's not a clean
separation means higher refurbishment costs at best and loss of the
engine(s) at worst.


Yeah, I hadn't even thought about that. Again, a stage separation is far
simply. Sure you've got some electrical connections, but no plumbing.


Right, and Vulcan will still have a first stage separation event, so
they're adding significant complexity to the vehicle to only get the
engines back. Why not add a similar, proven, amount of complexity to
get the entire stage back in one piece?

The only bit of IP ULA might not have to do a VTVL is the software. And
there are plenty of small start-ups they could parter with or simply buy
outright in order to gain that IP.

I think ULA is hamstrung by its parent companies. They really, really,
don't want to put much more money into ULA. It's pretty much on life
support at this point. I expect it will eventually be sold off or re-
absorbed into the parents. But, I have no real insight into this, see
..sig.

Jeff
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