Brian Tung wrote:
Possibly you didn't mean to call AJ a liar, but I can see how one might
read it that way, and I don't think we want to go down that road.

I most certainly did not mean to call AJ a liar. I apologize that it
came off that way. I was simply using the strongest word possible to
label the idea espoused. As you said the lie is institutional; people
tell it to each other to bolster and unify their common position against
a perceived threat from science. But this threat, like the idea
espoused, is not real.

Also, since I'm here, I should have added this: the core of Christian
religious belief is that there is a Creator. If one chooses to believe
that the Universe must have been created this is their choice; it is the
basis of their faith. Science does not invalidate that choice nor does
it even address the issue. This is the central misunderstanding and the
crux of the mistake being made by the creationists. Science cannot,
will not, and does not in any way pose a threat to this core belief. If
the Universe began with a Big Bang, then one is free to claim God made
it happen. If lightening is made of flowing electrons, it is as God
made it. If gravity is best described as a curvature of spacetime then
God is a genius who works in very odd mysterious ways. If species
evolve one is free to claim that God created a Universe in which that
happens. Anyone who claims science invalidates any of that is mistaking
their own beliefs for science and they are ultimately as mistaken as any
creationist. Unfortunately the truth here is often muddled in the
exchange of people at either end of the spectrum, both making the same
mistake! I suppose God invented irony too. :-)

The core mistake of the creationists is not to believe in creation. No,
their mistake is to go one giant step beyond that and try to treat the
bible as if it were a science text. It is not a science text. If it
were it would have foretold the mysteries of the Universe that have been
discovered in the last 2000 years: the Sun at the center of the solar
system, planets bound by gravity, galaxies, electricity, magnetism,
nucleosynthesis, DNA, craters on the Moon, the transistor, lasers,
nuclear fusion, a warm wet mars, dinosaurs, angioplasty, gravitational
lensing, cell phones, and of course the fact that Women are from Venus. :-)

In fact, the bible can be noted for how devoid it is of such things!
Surely that should be obvious... If the bible is a science text it's a
really, really terribly bad one. :-)

The error (made by a few well meaning but misguided Christians) is to
treat the bible as if it is, in fact, a science text, when it should be
obvious to even the most fervently religious yet clear thinking person
that it is not. And there you have it in a nutshell: this is not about
science or religion at all. It's about a few irrational, illogical
thinkers. The travesty here is that our society is ignorant enough
about what science is and what it is not that these irrational ideas
have been allowed to creep into some mainstream churches.

Brian, by making me post again on this thread you have now made a liar
out of me. Shame on you!

Clear skies,
Greg


--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

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