JF Mezei wrote on Thu, 29 Mar 2018
04:35:24 -0400:

On 2018-03-28 23:06, Fred J. McCall wrote:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-s-...-in-deep-space



And did you follow my suggestion and ask NASA all your questions?
Apparently not, so accept the answers you're about to be given.


The image I had been given from reading elsewhere was the equivalent of
Zarya/Node1 days of ISS where ECLSS was provided by the visiting Shuttle
and they just had fans running from small solar array.


I don't feel responsible for "the image you had been given". The
Gateway will consist of at least four modules: Power and Propulsion,
Habitation, Logistics, Docking.


Sustaining indeterminate number of crews for 30 to 60 days requires full
ECLSS and toilet.


Four crew for up to 41 days, initially. Long duration missions later
during Gateway full up testing.


So essentially, they need to build Destiny (ECLSS +
command and control) one node, the airlock and the PMA docking
adpaters, and then add the toilet, propulsion and enough solar panels
and radiators for power/cooling.


Or they just need to order a B330-DS. Order two and you've taken care
of both the Habitation and Logistics modules. Note that these are
heavier (and more capable) than NASA's current plan, but can probably
be spun up more quickly than some clean sheet design. NASA's current
plan has each individual module of the Gateway at a target mass of 10
tonnes or less. A B330 weighs about twice that. I think their mass
limit is a result of having each module after the PPS module delivered
by Orion, so the total to TLI is limited to a 26 tonne Orion and 13
tonnes of other cargo to stay within the capability of SLS Block 1B.


Unless they duplicate Destiny/nodes/airlocks and its old military copper
networking, and all the software, there is no way they would be ready to
start launching by 2022.


Oh, don't be silly! The Habitation module isn't expected to launch
until 2024. The 2022 launch is the Power and Propulsion module and it
is now planned to go on a commercial launcher, probably Falcon Heavy
or Vulcan (although Vulcan ACES won't be available in time).


Oh, does NASA even have automated docking software so a module can get
to that Gateway and dock automatically so station can self-assemble
without crew, canadarm ?


Of course they do. Orion does automated docking (which is probably
why they're sending each of the pieces of the Gateway on a mission
that includes Orion). The Gateway Logistics module will have an arm.


Also, that page mentions commercial cargo resupply. Who would do this
and with what rocket and what cargo vehicle?


Who would do it? Whoever wanted to bid on it. The expected players
would be ULA with Vulcan, SpaceX with Falcon Heavy, and Blue Origin
with New Armstrong. Cargo vehicles would presumably be Dragon,
CST-100, and whatever Blue Origin comes up with for a cargo module.


How many such cargo resupply would be required by NASA and if it is only
1 or 2, do you really think the likely suspects will spend the megabucks
to develop such a system?


They're going to need more than a couple resupply missions given the
days of 'stay time' they're talking about for crewed operation.


Is it fair to assume that Dragon on Falcon9 can't make it to the moon
and back?


It can, but it would be cargo-limited since Cargo Dragon's dry mass
eats up around 2/3 of the TLI capability of Falcon 9. Falcon Heavy is
more likely.



Oh, I see. You're arguing about what you IMAGINE.


I had read elsewhere that the hab capabilities expanded the Orion's
space and provided an airlock to allow crews to do EVAs but not meant to
support life for long periods. (aka. short missions supported by Orion).
The NASA text above, by stating 30 to 60 day support changes this quite
a bit, but also makes this Gateway far bigger and far more costly, with
no regular use planned. Just a pet project.


Where do you get the 'no regular use planned'?



Yes, but so what?


So despite NASA's proven on-time performance for SLS, Orion, and despite
its proven on-time performance for ISS modules, you still really believe
that it can design, build, test enough modules to make Gateway liveable
before they run out of SSME engines and/or funding for SLS ?


The Power and Propulsion module is already designed (from the asteroid
mission). They're going to be buying more SLS engines. Your only
apparently reason for believing everything will be late is, well, your
imagination. Funding for the start of Gateway is in the current
budget request.

snip political bull****

No, I don't need to consider your political delusions.

Read this.

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017...lti-step-mars/


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw