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Old January 28th 07, 10:02 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36
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Posts: 1,189
Default Looking into the past with a telescope



On Jan 28, 9:51 pm, "Greg Neill" wrote:
"Davoud" wrote in ...
Davoud:
I can think of no reason why the Universe can't have a central region
in three-dimensional space if the Big Bang theory is correct.


Greg Neill:
If the BB is correct, then every place in the 3D universe was
once co-located with the center. So there is no unique place
that one can call The Center, since every place equally
fulfills the role.


I have seen this argument in various guises. In /my/ /mind/ it breaks
down because of mixed verb tenses. "Every place /was/ /once/ co-located
in the center." OK, but "every place" departed the center when
space-time expanded, leaving the center behind. These "places" did not
all carry the center with them so that each one is now a center of its
own. Such a place -- a region that was denser than average due to a
quantum fluctuation and later became the core of a galaxy -- may be a
local center, but it is not the Universal center -- in /my/ /mind/ .Your difficulty with this seems to stem from your adhering to

a model where things exploded out from a center into a
pre-existing space or void. This is not the case in the BB
model where space itself expanded. There was nothing at
all (not even space) "outside".



Simple common sense says that the two-dimensional surface of a sphere
has no center -- I figured that out for myself while playing with a
solid-color, featureless rubber ball as a child -- but if you look
beyond the surface, inside the sphere, you will find a center.That's fine if you have the ability to look beyond the surface.

If you can't, then you're confined to looking on the surface.
The same thing holds for us, who can only point to things inside
the universe. There is no direction in all of space that we can
point to that is in the direction of a unique center in 3D space,
yet every direction points to the Big Bang (since we look back
in time as we look further out).- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -


Here is the answer you are looking for -



" 'Now, it is very remarkable that this is so extensively
overlooked,' continued the Time Traveller, with a slight accession of
cheerfulness. 'Really this is what is meant by the Fourth Dimension,
though some people who talk about the Fourth Dimension do not know
they mean it. It is only another way of looking at Time. There is no
difference between time and any of the three dimensions of space
except that our consciousness moves along it. But some foolish people
have got hold of the wrong side of that idea. You have all heard what
they have to say about this Fourth Dimension?'"

http://www.bartleby.com/1000/1.html

This is what you get when axial rotation to celestial sphere geometry
morphs into orbital motion to an aether,remove the aether and bingo -
you get bare celestial sphere geometry.

I think the fiction which created the early 20th century concepts far
surpasses the narrative neccessities which Wells used to create a
wonderful science fiction story.

Want to know what Newton thought of aether -

"The fictitious matter which is imagined as filling the whole of
space
is of no use for explaining the phenomena of Nature, since the
motions
of the planets and comets are better explained without it, by means
of
gravity; and it has never yet been explained how this matter accounts
for gravity. The only thing which matter of this sort could do, would
be to interfere with and slow down the motions of those large
celestial
bodies, and weaken the order of Nature; and in the microscopic pores
of
bodies, it would put a stop to the vibrations of their parts which
their heat and all their active force consists in. Further, since
matter of this sort is not only completely useless, but would
actually
interfere with the operations of Nature, and weaken them, there is
no
solid reason why we should believe in any such matter at all.
Consequently, it is to be utterly rejected." NEWTON

The fiction of the early 20th century was to dump 'aether' on Newton
as 'absolute space' and then reject it all over again.

I love this fiction stuff,carry on and we will take the whole thing
apart and expose where you are getting the anti-astronomical every-
point-is-the-center-of-an-expanding- universe.