"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ...
"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message
om...
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...
"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message
om...
[snip]
Note the title of the thread. Alexsandr wishes
to treat the interesting absorption and emission phenomenon as
"boundary conditions".
You has missed from attention the very relevant detail.
"Enslaving" of electromagnetic waves by SUBSTANCE is
possible only in quantum nonlinear processes of transformation
of electromagnetic energy of electromagnetic waves.
This is well and good, as wave mathematics allows one to do
some very powerful things that descibe the behaviour of large
populations of particles.
Next, in typical bar room fashion, he claims that light is *not*
comprised
of particles, and photons are mere illusions. That light is truly
not
comprised of particles, but is completely wave only for its entire
existance. And that this is the sum total of truth.
He has been challenged to provide a wave-only observable
phenomenon, and
has failed. Self-interference is displayed by all particles, so
that is a failing of particle-only models (more correctly
particle-as-billiard-ball models).
Thanks for the update. Ye gods, he was blethering about this a year
ago when I decided to cease posting here.
In that case we shall be delighted to read your interpretation of an
interference in a VLBI interferometer from a "photon" point of view.
Has he really made no attempt to
learn something in the intervening time?
Freedom of religious conscience is a private affair of the believer.
So now I ask you...
What is it about "wave only" and "particle with radial extents"
that you find similar, Franz?
David, I genuinely don't understand your question.
However, I am totally comfortable with the following collection of
thoughts:
The photon is a particle.
Its evolution in space and time is governed, as are the evolutions
of all
other particles, by wave functions which obey the rules of quantum
mechanics.
Newton's laws are only approximations which are as near as dammit
true
in the macroscopic world. (I am not taking into account general
relativistic effects in this)
The statistical behaviour of vast assemblies of photons all sharing
the same state is determined by Maxwell's theory of EM.
Freedom of religious conscience is a private affair of the believer.
In that case we shall be delighted to read your interpretation of an
interference in a VLBI interferometer from a "photon" point of view.
Have you ever heard of the correspondence principle?
Well, apply it to the VLBI, since that instrument operates in the
classical domain.
Result:
The behaviour of the VLBI may be analysed by the use of the classical
equations, i.e.Maxwell's Equations.
That is eminently more sensible than trying to model the simultaneous
behaviour of unbelievably vast numbers of photons
I suppose, that in this place you,
Franz Heymann, contradict yourselves:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...dial.pipex.com
================================================== ==============
From: "franz heymann"
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Photon Wave-Particle Duality
Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:19:17 +0100
Aleksandr Timofeev wrote in message
om...
"franz heymann" wrote in message
m...
[snip]
1.
The structure factor of photons has been determined by more
than one group of experimenters. It is consistent with zero
radius.
[snip]
2.
But you froget that a whole century has passed in the mean
time and that no prediction made by quantum mechanics has
ever been proved wrong in any experimental test.
Franz Heymann
You can play with a virtual radio interferometer.
Main ideas of the VLBI radio interferometer a
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...g .google.com
If you will manage to explain a principle of operation of this
type of interferometer from the photon point of view, then:
I shall believe in existence of photons, and
I shall eat my tie or hat.
---------------------------------------
[Snip]
You used too many words in a very repetitve way, so I snipped all
of them
I hope you have either a hat or a tie to eat, because here is the
explanation to your problem :-
Firstly, the wave has nothing to do with the size of a photon.
The wave function allows one to calculate various probabilities
associated with the detection of a photon.
Secondly, it is an observable fact that the wave function of
radio frequency photons emitted by an astronomical object can
have a non zero amplitude at any of the detectors of a large
baseline interferometer. In fact, it expands radially outwards
from the source as a spherical wave.
Thirdly, photons are bosons, which means that any number of them
can share the same wavefunction.
Fourthly, a macroscopic radio wave is the wavefunction of an
extremely large assembly of photons, all coherently sharing the
same wave function. Detecting one photon at one of the antennae
simultaneously with the detection of another (coherent) photon at
another antenna is then possible.
Fifthly, in the classical limit, the behaviour of such a coherent
assembly of photons has been proven to tend to just the behaviour
one would expect from an application of Maxwell's equations.
Now get the frying pan ready and prepare your tie or hat for
eating.
Bon appetit.
Franz Heymann
================================================== ==============
Now Franz Heymann, I want to listen to yours FAIRY TALES
of connection between:
1.
a WAVE FUNCTION ("of an extremely large assembly of photons")
2.
and ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES (an application of Maxwell's equations).
They are essentially the same thing.
"
Fourthly, a macroscopic radio wave is the wavefunction of an
extremely large assembly of photons, all coherently sharing the
same wave function. Detecting one photon at one of the antennae
simultaneously with the detection of another (coherent) photon at
another antenna is then possible.
"
Yours idea Franz about equivalence of a shared WAVE FUNCTION
for "photons" and electromagnetic wave physically IS ABSURD.
The wave of probability (WAVE FUNCTION) spread in space
similarly to electromagnetic waves does not exist in the Nature.
This extremely CRASY speculative chimera could be born
in Franz Heymann head only. ;^)
" Anyone who can prove that "the wave of probability (WAVE
FUNCTION) spread in space similarly to electromagnetic waves "
has a sure fire ticket to Stockholm to collect his Nobel Prize."
Bob Kolker
I will say no more on this topic for now, so you are welcome to a field
day slating me if you wish.
I "wish."
You did not succeed
I "wish." again. ;^)
I have no further interest in bantering with you at present, since I have
made myself clear as long ago as the time I produced those snippets which
you quoted without understanding their content
Franz Heymann
Now get the frying pan ready and prepare your tie or hat for
eating.
Bon appetit.
Aleksandr Timofeev