"greywolf42" wrote in message
...
I belive you've gone circular, here. Without "dark matter" the big bang's
current incarnation is dead. The "measurement" of distance used in those
"lensing" studies assumes the big bang (pure doppler for the Hubble
constant). Hence your mass estimates are worthless for the purpose of
discriminating between dark matter and non-dark matter.

That is incorrect. The distance measurements were not inferred from earlier
dark matter measurements, as your claim of circular reasoning would imply.

However, if you fail to believe the preponderance of evidence pointing
toward a big bang universe, another completely independent measurement using
an unrelated methodology that supports the currently accepted big bang
cosmology is unlikely to change your view.

I'd be interested to see a demonstration of an alternative view that can
explain all the previous measurements as well as recent lensing
measurements.

Jason

[Mod. note: so would everyone else, but posters trying to meet this
challenge should bear in mind the s.p.r. and s.a.r. moderation
criteria -- mjh.]