Derek Lyons ) wrote:
: "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:

: (Derek Lyons) wrote in news:44b272fd.242789375
: :
:
: "Skylon" wrote:
:
: Shuttle as an X-series program though? For whatever reason I see that
: like this. Maybe fly the first two orbiters, for a good few years with
: minimum crews, if you want to launch some payloads, fine but see how
: the vehicle works and don't treat it like an operational beast. Then by
: the late 1980's/early 90's prepare for two new shuttles based off the
: data learned from the first two.
:
: You miss the point.
:
: Jorge proposes picking up in the early 70's where we left off in the
: early 60's - start with X-15 derivatives and work towards Shuttle.
:
: I propose something even more radical - Mercury et al *should never
: have flown in the first place*. We never should have taken that
: propoganda driven route of cheap disposable capsules *in the first
: place*.
:
: Well, I was talking in terms of 1972 "what-if" scenarios. If we're talking
: 1959 "what-if" scenarios, I'd take yours as well.

: I'm not talking a "what-if" scenario Jorge. I'm seriously proposing
: that, historically speaking, we messed up our space policy big time
: somewhere around 1958. We had a second chance - but then Kennedy
: backed away from 'space supremacy' as policy, and replaced it with a
: policy of meeting the Russians where they chose to compete rather than
: defining the competition on our own terms. (Not, mind you, that I can
: see any reasonable way the decisions could have gone differently.)

What would space supremacy look like today had we taken that route, that
you say we missed? How different would it look that what we have now?

: We've been living with the consequences of both decisions ever since.
: Worse yet, the fanboys insist that the current situation is
: inevitable... (Mostly because alternate scenarios don't allow a
: return to Apollo and the Heroic Days of Yesteryear.)

No, that's because we haven't done anything like Apollo in 37 years!

: You realize, of course, that we're *both* committing heresy this time,
: since in that timeline Apollo would never have occurred...?

: These groups would benefit greatly from more heresy being added to the
: mix. The quality of thought has steadily declined, and the level of
: Party Lines and Groupthink has raised considerably, over the last few
: years.

Yes, the Democrats want to have both parties working together so they can
get back into the mix. Whereas the Republicans want to continue to do it
alone as they feel they don't need the Democrats.

: Of course, the compensation is considerable - we'd likely have had frequent
: and relatively) affordable access to LEO since the mid-80s to early-90s, and
: would by now probably be on the moon *to stay*...

: That's a rosy scenario - I'd rate it as "probably certain" myself.

It is easy to play Monday morning quarterback and hindsight is indeed
20-20. Given that you can't go back and the only possiibility to shape the
furture is in the present, tell me what you would do right now to get us
on a better path WRT to this space exploration we appeared to have missed.

Eric

: D.
: --
: Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

: -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
: Oct 5th, 2004 JDL