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Old July 19th 09, 05:34 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics
Adam
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Default An American Colony on Mars!

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:09:01 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:45:09 -0400, Adam wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:13:56 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:54:42 -0400, Adam wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:21:17 -0500, Marvin the Martian wrote:

Buzz Aldrin tells it like it is: the moon is a "dead end"!!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...-Aldrin-calls-
for-
an-American-colony-on-Mars

Buzz Aldrin calls for "an American colony" on Mars by Magnifico Digg
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Buzz Aldrin, the second person to walk on the moon, writes in an
opinion piece at the Washington Post that "it is time we were bold
again in space."

Aldrin's vision, "Time to Boldly Go Once More", advocates creating an
American colony on Mars in 20 years. He believes if the United States
space program "avoided the pitfall of aiming solely for the moon, we
could be on Mars by the 60th anniversary year of our Apollo 11
flight."

Aldrin thinks NASA plans to re-explore the moon is a "dead end".
Instead, Aldrin says we should commit our nation to establishing "an
American colony" on Mars.

What is the motivation for "colonizing" space? Is it not the
presumption that we are going to foul this planet beyond repair; so we
will need another planet to foul?

Perhaps a civilization that is advanced enough to colonize space hows
to take care of their home planet and doesn't need to colonize space.
Perhaps a civilization that doesn't know how to take care of its home
planet shouldn't inflict itself on pristine worlds.

Personally, I don't take the view that humans "foul" everything they
come into contact, nor do I find much value in dead worlds that beg to
be colonized remaining dead.


How many do you plan to colonoize? All of them? Otherwise, there would
still be "dead worlds that beg to be colonized remaining dead".


Colonize Mars, just Mars. Mars is easy; it is by far the most hospitable
planet in the solar system to human life. Why, you might last 10 seconds
or so without a space suit on the surface of Mars. Put you on the surface
anywhere else, and you'd die much more quickly. These other places don't
"beg to be colonized".


What if we do find ET in our travels? Why do we suppose that he will
be benevolent rather than see us as a source of food?

I doubt ET will be a problem.


Because ...?

Do you expect them to be more benevolent, tolerant, etc., than we are?
If so, why?


I explained why they're not likely to want to eat us, in the incredibly
unlikely event that they could gain nourishment from our form of life. If
they are ETs from another planet, the odds of them having such similar
biology that they could consume us is very remote.

And then come here just to cause trouble? I don't think so. Space is BIG!
Really BIG. That they would need earth resources and would cross
interstellar space to get ours? Not likely. They'd come here to study us.

If ET is smart enough to find us, he'd realize that it takes far more
food to bring a human to any kind of slaughter weight than he gets back
as food, and that the same animals we eat; cows, pigs and chickens, are
a far better and less contaminated food source.

Lets face it, after a decade or so, human flesh gets a nasty taste.


Luckily, I wouldn't know.


Well, there are people who do know, and basically, people taste like
Pork, and you have to take all the precautions you do with pork.

We have lots of animals on this planet. How many do we want to
socialize with? Few - as pets. How many do we treat as equals? None.
Most animals on this planet are seen as food by one or more of our
societies. Why wouldn't ET see us as food? Because they respect our
intelligence? Pigs are smarter that horses. Which ends up on a dinner
plate more often in the West?

Not being a liberal, I don't find dumb animals to be on par or superior
to humans.


Perhaps ET won't be a liberal, either.


Indeed! A race that rational, that scientific, that they could come here
wouldn't be liberal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serv..._Twilight_Zone)

Maybe the "we are here" message sent with Voyager was a bad idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

Or maybe ET won't know what to do with a record anymore than many on
Earth do today.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102975/quotes Memorable quotes for Star
Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Let us redefine progress to mean
that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily mean we
must do that thing.

Yeah.... I don't get my philosophy from impossible to exist star trek
societies.


Where do you get your vision for colonized worlds?


Not from Star Trek.

Look, the fundamental problem facing humanity is that while our
technology is growing at a rapid pace, our wisdom is in decline. More and
more governments, even individuals, are learning how to inflict a
gigadeath event upon humanity. It is just a matter of time before someone
does.


So the drive to colonize space is driven by a fear of the planet being
fouled after all.



If we are all in one "basket", it will be game over for sure. Einstein
saw this problem and was a founder of Pugwash. Several other scientist
also see the problem, like the late Carl Sagan. I disagree with
Pugwash's approach, which is to lobotomize scientist. I think the
solution is a wiser, better educated humanity.

It's either get the best eggs off this planet, or humanity will soon
become extinct.


Maybe not liberal, but this sounds elitest. They are to leave the rest
of us to die in a mess that "the best eggs" might have found a way to
forestall? Aren't these wonderful examples of humanity?

So we send those who are both the most capable and the most selfish to
seed a new world? What would a world be like where it is all chiefs
and no indians? Is this the makings of a harmonious second Eden?

There was some good philosophy in Star Trek.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Space_Seed_(episode)
"But you left at the very time mankind needed courage."

"Have you ever read Milton, captain?"

-
Adam