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Old September 8th 08, 07:29 PM posted to,sci.environment,sci.physics,sci.chem
Ian Parker
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Posts: 2,554
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On 8 Sep, 18:00, "Martha Adams" wrote:
It's interesting to conjecture what would happen if we *did*
get a black-hole object. *My guess is our planet would be a
few years falling into it, since energy released from the
falling would create a pressure field around it, thus slowing
the infall. **That means* we'd have time for an intense and
very fast space settlement program before increasingly
frequent earthquakes made large structures impossible to
build and use.

If, if, if. You realise that it is completely impossible. A black hole
is NOT black. 14TeV seems a small energy, but suppose a BH were to be
created it wouls disappear almost immediately because of Hawking
radiation. Let us look at 14TeV at a point. In energy terms this
represents 1.6*10^-19 *14*10^12N or 2.2*10^-6N. This is

2.2*10^-6/9*10^16Kg or about 1.9*10^-22Kg. This has a Swartzchild
radius of 6.67*10^-11*1.9*10^-22/9*10^16m or about 10^-46m. The
hadrons cannot in fact enter this space because of plank uncertainty.
If we have string Theory and a large number iof dimensions we will get
BHs that reflect the different forces in a TOE.

As I said Hawking radiation would destroy such a hole as soon as it
was formed. Hawking radiation would be a little bit different in the
case of multidimensional holes as they would exhibit nuclear forces as
well as just EM radiation.

No, I think the Blach Hole idea reflects a deeper motive and
psychology. At the end of the ice age sea levels rose. The Thames was
once a tributory of the Rhine. Adam and Eve lived in the Shatt al
Arab, in what is now sea. The story of Genesis is in fact an attempt
of people to explain what was going on. Nothing about ice sheets, no
God was angry with Man because Man ate of the tree of knowledge. Even
at that point in history people thought the scientists of the day were
asking too many questions. This is the real point. Black holes can be

I'd propose for this a settlement on Luna farside as the
best compromise between maximum distance and minimum time to
build the settlement. *The work would be to ship out as much
material as possible before further work becomes impossible,
and provide the 30-60 settlers with frozen human eggs and
sperm to maintain the necessary genetic diversity. *It's an
interesting topic.

I would propose nothing.

Actually, I can't agree with the idea the Super Collider and
theoretical physics and cosmology generally, are useless.
Back in the late 1800's, state of the art in
theoretical physics was how does light get created; how do
electric and magnetic fields work to move energies, and etc,
leading to things we take for granted today such as radio and
radar, transformers, computers etc etc. *Of course there were
people like Jonathan then, convinced their kerosene lanterns,
gas lighting, and telegraph systems were completely all
anyone could need.

Having known some theoretical physicists personally, I can
speak from my own experience to say, they are some of the
quickest and brightest people around. *When he says they
are doing

"...the most useless, most irrelevant and least meaningful
kind of science possible...."

The original topic was is the US falling behind? I think the US is.
There are a number of reasons for this. The pschology of Theoretical
Physics is I think important. It may not produce immediate results but
a society that fails to invest will :-

1) Not inspire its young people.

2) Many scientists visit Geneva from overseas. You will get the
benefit of their thoughts on a number of topics.

3) There is a lot of work going on, such as the Grid which are of
considerable relevance practically.

I think the US is falling behind both Europe and Asia. I think there
are a number of reasons.

1) The failure to build a supercollider.

2) Creationalism, the view that the World is no older than the Ice

3) Governmenr interference with things like Stem Cell research.

4) The US is now a lot less welcoming to foreigners than it was in the
time of Kennedy.

None of these factors is decisive in itself, but taken together they
are a deterrent for young people to study science. I could add to this
the fact that a degree in sports journalism is more highly regarded
than one in science. Or Arabic for that matter! Decisions are taken at
a political level without a single expert being consulted.

The fact that capability in space has declined is obvious. Armstrong
and Aldrin went to the Moon on the top of a Saturn 5. With much more
advanced general technology Ares cannot be made to work. Of couse,
scientists go into private industry rather than government. Google
employs a lot of very bright people.

I think we can add another factor.

5) In the US good scientific minds do not go into government.

I write this as a European. Why should I care anyway.

- Ian Parker