On Jan 15, 3:19*am, Ian Parker wrote:
On 15 Jan, 02:07, "Martha Adams" wrote:

"Ian Parker" wrote in message

...

There is one clear moral in what you say and it is this. Make sure
that aid is always distributed fairly. Make sure always that extremism
is not encouraged.

It is ironc. In Arabic "Fatah" means "youth". We see corrupt
geriatrics governing in Palestine today. Hamas would not have won if
that were not so. I keep on saying that the casting of lead will only
encourage Hamas, AQ and all those who are extreme.

I think a good idea might well be to open all the crossings. Now Hamas
what are You going to do?

*- Ian Parker

I do believe these people don't figure out they're off topic -- because,
they can't.

It IS off topic. Not quite though. The overwhelming issues are these.

1) We do not treat each other with respect. I have been to scientific
conferences and language like we have seen would be off limits. There
is the real issue of new ideas.

2) Ad hominem arguments have been introdiced by Fred and Rand not by
me. The ad hominem argument is simply this. Given that their thinking
has left Iraq and the Middle East in general in such a mess, can you
trust them to run NASA. They seem to be keeping their ideas close to
their chests. Is there any evidence they would be better than current
NASA ideas.

3) Since 1969 there has been a revolution in UNMANNED exploration.
Current spacecraft simnply do not compare with those of 1969. Real X-
ray telescopes worthy of the name, WMAP, Voyager etc. These represent
quantum leaps in capability. There is LISA too which to me represents
a milestone but other people seem to be ridiculing.

4) Where in contrast is the fresh thinking about manned spaceflight?
Ares is simply a glorified Saturn. As has been observed human
spaceflight is strictly confined to LEO.

5) To be the only way forward is increased use of automation. There is
to me only one way to Mars and that is via a series of stepping stones
NONE OF WHICH ARE DELIVERED FROM EARTH. If things are delivered from
Earth you might just as well assemble everything at LEO and simply
cast off.

6) Ares to me shows a complete lack of ANY creative thinking. It is
not only Saturn writ large, it (effectively) mandates heavy
indivisible loads rather than space assembly.

7) This group seems to discource creative thinking. Seeing our threads
creative thinkers are going to be put off.

From an ad hominem stand-point "cast lead" typifies the kind of
thinking we have.

I feel that Obama should in essence pull the plug. Get rid of NASA
lock stock and barrel. How will unmanned flights be organized. Well
there is already overlap between NASA and ESA. What I would advocate
is a slimmed down board of academics who would vet and instigate
unmanned projects.

NASA in its present form is an exercise in futility. There can be no
other way of looking at it.

* - Ian Parker

There's nothing the scientific community og Usenet fears more than
public knowledge of the truths, or perhaps even more so is their fear
of any public awareness as to their infowar lies upon lies and the
frequent exclusions of evidence in order to keep the rest of us
snookered and dumbfounded as possible.

Perhaps BHO will have little option but to shut our NASA down, at
least until everything gets sorted out.

~ BG