On 12 Jan, 13:01, (Rand Simberg) wrote:



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On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:17:22 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

The scheme illustrated on my page probably is a little 'utopian',
since it envisages the construction of gigantic underground domes,
high enough that trees can grow in them to full height. At first, the
domes would probably be a bit smaller, and housing might be dug from
tunnels leading from the domes rather than in the form of buildings
built inside the domes - where food is grown.


Only a Von Neumann machine can achieve this. Other people continue to
pooh pooh the idea. I pooh pooh all grandiose ideas NOT involving VN
technology in one form or another.


Yes, we know you do--you don't have to tell us. It's one of the
primary things that makes you such a loon.



Well aol your ideas are too. The only future for manned spaceflight
that I can see is one of ever inceasing cost. Manned spaceflight is
simply conspicuous consumption which call be ill affored in a
recession.

OK Keynes DID advocate public works, but public works with a FUTURE,
like the Hoover Dam. Manned spaceflight has no future other than ever
increasing levels of unproductive expenditure.


That is the cold hard truth.

Another cold hard truth. America is in the state it is because it has
spent so much money unproductively. Not only on speceflight but on
Iraq. The Iraq money could have been used to produce loads of "green"
energy or in a myriad of productive ways. Asia is NOT spending on
either Iraq or Afghanistan and is outproducing the US in terms of
engineers. Their money by contrast is spent productively.

Another cold hard truth - Hamas is going to emerge bloodied but
unbowed. More extremism is going to follow. Khaled Mashaal is called
Khaled (xAlid) because he will always be there. Kill him and someone
else will take his place.

Yet another - The US has a balance of payments deficit on high tech
goods. All the evidence is that the rest of the World has not only
caught up but is acually surpassing the US. Detroit is where it is not
only because of the recession, but because it is producing cars no one
wants to buy any more. Japan has a very real technological lead.

To me the whole idea of manned spaceflight along the lines you seem to
what to suggest is absolutely insane. Any reasonable analysis says it
must be. People go the Moon. All their supplies have to be brought in
from Earth via Ares or some other rocket. If they then go on to Mars
all the material going to Mars will have to be transported up to LEO,
to the Moon? at great expense. An expedition will (let us say) weigh
2,000tons at LEO. Some 50,000 tons of expendible boosters will be
needed to get it there. About 200 tons will arrive on Mars. During the
trip to Mars, on Mars and back, food, oxygen and other consumables
will be used up. Staying on Mars will use up yetr more consumables.
The whole thing does not add up. To produce a habitat would require
about a million tons of boost from the Earth's surface.

Jacob Navia is right. The technology is not there. Not there for
plants in a vacuum, not there for plants in a prwessurized
environment.

All you seem to want is money to carry out your pet schemes, which I
will predict will come to nothing.


- Ian Parker


- Ian Parker