On Apr 8, 2:39 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics,

wrote
on 8 Apr 2007 13:25:39 -0700
.com:





On Apr 8, 10:46 am, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics,
Venus is NOT too hot to touch, at least not with the Ovglove.

Touching Venus is the least of one's worries. The Ovglove
is an oven mitt; to properly characterize the issue one
would have to preheat the oven at the "Super Dooper Hot
Broil" setting (about 860 F), step inside the oven (which,
since this is a thought experiment, would be a walk-in
affair), close the door, and wait for an hour or so.

One is allowed to wear an Ovglove body suit, if one wishes.

To be fair, the atmosphere would have to be extremely dry
within the oven, so one is allowed to sweat (and there are
materials that "breathe", allowing water out; presumably
the Ovglove can be suitably modified); of course, there is
the little issue of replenishing that sweat. I'd frankly
doubt if the "wind chill" factor would be enough to
dissipate sufficient heat to keep the Ovglove wearer alive.

And then there's the little issue of breathing.
Where would the oxygen come from?

The good news: one might be able to read a book without too
much trouble; the lack of O2 within the Venusian atmosphere
should preclude its flashing into flame. Also, surface
gravity shouldn't be too much above 9.805 N/kg.

(Assuming one's brain isn't fried, of course.)

The GOOGLE/Usenet takes in, but lo and behold their topic index of
replies doesn't indicate this following contribution, so I'll try it
once again.

Obviously I Ovglove jest, and obviously the co2--co/o2 (same process
as working on behalf of the Mars mission fiasco) is where the local
needs of whatever O2 is to be found, except in easily available bulk.
The last time I'd checked, Venus had a touch more than its fair share
of co2 (kept nicely bone dry and process preheated to boot), and
otherwise having way more than its fair share of locally renewable
energy to burn (sort of speak), so that you don't have to bother
packing along a nuclear reactor, and at that local pressure your body
doesn't even require all that much O2 (just lots of ice cold beer).

So OK then. How does one convert CO2 to O2 in a 9.3 MPa, 860F
environment?







Before doing Venus in whatever cozy Ovglove protected person, even
though a composite rigid airship/shuttle or whatever 'tomcat' fat-
waverider should more than do the trick, whereas Venus L2 is offering
us the very next best available ticket to ride, and without such
involving any Ovgloves.

Venus L2(VL2) is in fact a POOF friendly and thus offering a
technically worthy location for an entire collective or community of
such inflated habitat items, that can be made quite livable for each
of those 19+ month missions, especially if getting shielded by an
extra meter or more of beer. Obviously I beer jest, as such required
shield density could be accomplished via Gin or Vodka, and
subsequently replaced by good old reliable pee. (waste not, want not)

Only the systematically perverted mindset of this mostly Old Testament
Usenet from naysay hell, that is in any formal disagreement as based
entirely upon their own faith-based crapolla, are of what's getting
this notion terminated, by way of those intent upon keeping all of
those mutually perpetrated cold-war and religious hocus-pocus lids on
tight, as for otherwise their having been focused upon topic/author
bashings, diverting and/or their total banishing upon all that's
Venus. (I think it's mostly a silly Old Testament Jewish thing, along
with those crazy Catholics and a few other cults bringing up the rear)

Unfortunately, ESA's Venus EXPRESS(VIRTIS) mission is keeping itself
every bit as dead as that of whatever our MI/NSA~NASA wants it to be
dead. The thermal imaging data from their robust PFS instrument has
been kept entirely taboo/nondisclosure rated (aka need to know) from
the very get go.

The surface of Venus is still giving off the average of 20.5 w/m2
(roughly 256 fold greater core energy loss than Earth), and the lower
atmospheric environment of Venus (below them relatively cool acidic
clouds) as having in fact been rather nicely insulated at that, as
well as for having incorporated that fairly robust S8 layer as being
an extra nifty solar isolation benefit, so that damn little of the
available solar IR influx ever reaches that geothermally forced
surface or even contributing all that much solar energy into that
dense lower atmosphere, of what's mostly a thick vapor/dry mixture of
S8 and CO2, that's otherwise unavoidably made available and sustained
as being toasty hot from whatever just below the geothermal surface on
up.

Venus is NOT getting solar roasted to death, at least not entirely if
hardly so.

ESA's sorry as hell "status reports" are all the way down to being
robo status quo. It's as though they're down to the science data
sharing dregs of a pair of soup cans and some string.

ESA's mission demise is too bad because, Venus has otherwise been so
nearby (at times merely 100 fold greater distance than our moon), so
otherwise planetology alive and kicking, as well as so ET accessible
(except for the likes of us village heathen idiots that still can't
honestly manage to walk upon our very own nearby moon, and much less
dare live to tell about it w/o involving banked bone marrow).

BTW; why are those other "The Ghost In The Machine" minions so
entirely screwed up?

There's only one, and it's me. :-P Unless I have some strange groupies
attempting to follow my tail or something (STOP THAT OUT THERE YOU
STRANGE GROUPIES! :-) ).

In any event, you are postulating a trip to Venus L2 from Earth, are you
not? This is fine, but one will have to work out exactly how much one
has to transport (are we talking 1 human, 1 family, 1 dozen families, 1
million families, all of humanity?) plus sufficient resources to keep
them alive, starting with a method by which they'd generate electric
power (recall that VL2 is in virtual shadow; the best they might hope
for there is some atmospheric refraction, if that), and whatever else
is needed to get them from here to there.

-
BradGuth

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Part - 2 - Life at VL2

Surviving at VL2's POOF city is offering somewhat tenuous odds, as
rather dependent upon how much shield is accomplishing how much actual
good, and of the naked physical truth of having to avoid whatever is
passing nearby or through your POOF that has your name on it.
Otherwise this POOF city should be nearly as safe as ISS, although
without benefit of a magnetosphere as shield from those waves upon
waves of solar wind that's continually blowing the upper atmospheric
stuff of Venus directly your way, is perhaps a bit more of an unknown.

The to/from commute is by itself another potentially testy what-if, or
at best a somewhat iffy consideration, that's likely worth a good 6
months that'll add to your time and unavoidable TBI in space, along
with the 16~18 months spent at VL2. I'm not sure if banked bone
marrow will be sufficient, but I certainly would not bother going
without taking along a well isolated N2 frozen soild cache of my own
bone marrow.

Two years worth of serious BO and other unavoidable considerations may
be asking a bit much from most of us. Possibly at best that amount of
time spent off-world can be cut down to 21 months, though don't count
on it, as if anything it's more than likely going to take a combined
30+ months, and that's if nothing goes terribly wrong. Still all and
all, VL2 being within 100 fold the distance of our moon each and every
19 months isn't imposing 5% of what doing Mars is all about.

We can even utilize our gamma and hard-Xray shedding moon itself as a
gravity boosted exit phace in getting to VL2, and upon our return we
should be able once again to utilize that pesky mascon of a moon as
our gravity parking brake. Because the moon only has that thin sodium
and argon atmosphere to deal with, as such the near miss passage for
achieving the best gravity affect can be safely taken to within a few
km off that moon's physically dark and nasty surface.

As for accomplishing Venus itself is not worth hardly 10% of doing
Mars, as well as representing an absolute win-win for those planning
upon staying for the remainder of their life, as for the notions of
ever returning from any such other world or spore and virus infested
moon is actually not such a good option, that is unless losing a few
hundred million folks upon Earth from whatever can easily infect our
frail environment and otherwise traumatise our poorly engineered DNA
(that'll have not a clue as to how to go about protecting ourselves
from whatever weird little forms of such ET micro life), as for such a
biological what-if being a potentially moral and/or ethical problem,
especially if it were derived from whatever was robust enough for
having been associated with that other planet or moon, shouldn't be
excluded from this or any other argument.

Too bad we don't have those station keeping robust habitats at our
moon's L1 for safely accommodating such crew and passengers returning
from whatever other worlds or moons, or better yet of there being
something deep underground upon our salty moon would become nearly the
ideal biological isolation, offering the ultimate solution that's
close enough to home to suit for all but physical contact.
-
Brad Guth