On 10/28/2010 2:26 AM, Ian Parker wrote:

The cost of Ariane 5 is $120M per launch, but Ariane 5 has an 18,000Kg
LEO payload. Neither, as I understand it, is human space flight
qualified, although there is the possibility that Ariane


Ariane 5 was design to be man-rated, as originally one of its payloads
was to be the Hermes mini-shuttle; but the French decided that if they
optimized it to carry the Hermes it would be less economical as a
commercial launcher, and that was the main purpose it was developed for:
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/hermes.htm


Energia is 88,000Kg. A real heavyweight.

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/energia.htm

http://www.friends-partners.org/part...vs/energia.htm


Yeah, but Energia is dead as a doornail despite Russian dreams of
somehow restarting the program. For starters, the four strap-on Zenit
boosters are made in Ukraine, not Russia, and Russia and Ukraine aren't
on very friendly terms...probably a result of Stalin starving between
seven and ten million Ukrainian farmers to death while exporting all the
wheat they grew to show the triumph of the Soviet collective farm concept.


Development cost was something over a billion roubles. Launch cost -
vague but probably comparable to Ariane 5.

This potted survey shows that if you want the lowest per Kg cost at
LEO you buy Russian. It is not as simple as that, there are political
questions and the cost may not be a true cost. The real comparison is
with Ariane 5.

This shows that Falcon, while an innovation is not so radically
different from other solutions. The real eye opener is Ariane 5. This
I think is because the Europeans, the French in particular had much
more consistent objectives than NASA. This analysis rubbishes Capitol
Hill but not necessarily NASA that has to live with the objectives
set.


The French were out to make a buck on commercial space launches; an idea
completely alien to NASA.


Certainly the quality of the scientific brains that produced this
proposal is not in question.


Ares I/Orion was supposed to be an easy-to-build system that could be
done quickly, and at low cost.
Then it began...Orion weighed too much, so the ground landing via
airbags or landing rockets and reusable heatshield got replaced by a sea
landing and non-reusable ablative heatshield.
But that was still too heavy to use a stock four-segment Shuttle SRB for
the first stage, so that had to be replaced with a five segment one.
Then it was found that the upper stage still wouldn't give sufficient
power to get the Orion into orbit unless it fired its service module
engine once separating from the second stage, cutting into its
propellant supply.
Whatever these scientific brains were good at, figuring out the math of
what their spacecraft was going to weigh vs. their planned booster's
lifting capabilities apparently wasn't one of their gifts.

Pat