On Monday, August 11, 2014 10:50:23 PM UTC+1, Mike Collins wrote:
oriel36 wrote:

On Monday, August 11, 2014 3:27:29 PM UTC+1, Bill wrote:

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 02:25:17 -0700 (PDT), oriel36 wrote:







There is a wonderful astronomical symphony attached to the daily arcs

of the Sun as our location arcs upwards from sunrise and reaches noon

and then arcs downward hence we see this effect of a round an rotating

Earth daily. The seasonal variations in that arc are due to an

additional surface rotation to the central Sun which changes the length

of time the Sun arcs from horizon to horizon and more interestingly the

variations in height as a consequence of the orbital component of

surface rotation. It is,of course, a new area of astronomy to visit

with visual narratives even with a cult out there who insist in

bypassing the daily arcs of the Sun by being fixated on circumpolar

motion of the distant stars.







There is no further need to revisit the hideous idea of the Sun

following a circumpolar arc even if it is proposed as 'fact' to a

society that has yet to engage with genuine astronomy through

contemporary tools which include magnification but are not solely

reliant on that facet of astronomy.







There is a wonderful sense of freedom for those who are not disposed to

distorting observations to suit a celestial sphere agenda whether they

call it universal gravity,relativity or some other variation on those

hapless themes. There is,however,a second chance for those who

straighten out all the references which lead to explanations of cause

and effect,solar system structure and so on in an atmosphere of

cooperation and genuine healthy competition.







This is all good and a sign that the stagnation which caused the life

to go out of astronomy is now setting the groundwork for a return to a

vibrant and productive state.







.



How it is that anyone (astronomer - by any definition, or any



layperson) can logically assert that the Sun's apparent motion (on short



time scales): is circumpolar; and say it with a clear conscience, is



something you'll either figure out for yourself - or you won't.



The daily arc of the Sun from horizon to horizon does not follow a

circumpolar arc insofar as the daily arc is in the opposite direction to

circumpolar motion looking South towards the Equator and variations in

that arc from greater to smaller as the Earth moves from its June to

December orbital position is matched in the Southern hemisphere by an

opposite apparent movement in the same arc from smaller to greater and in

the opposite arc to the Southern circumpolar stars.



It is not a clear conscience as that assumes intelligence of some

standard, what you are prepared to believes defies description as this is

the apparent daily motion of the Sun and its seasonal variations that is

being challenged because the Sun follows no circumpolar arc from horizon to horizon -



http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm



The only acceptable variations in the arc of the Sun from horizon to

horizon are the normal seasonal arcs with greater arcs away from the

Equator as the season progresses towards hemispherical summer -



http://www.astronomy.org/programs/se...ing-sun-sm.gif





With 3 centuries of empirical voodoo creating an interpretative atrophy

in our race it is no wonder that not even the apparent motion of the Sun

survives as an observation.



You can decide whether or not this is acceptable:


http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm

In your celestial sphere cult mind, you extend the Sun's daily arc in circumpolar motion to all locations on Earth with progressively wider arcs towards the Equator with Polaris at the center and between the daily motion of the Sun and the local horizon.

I worked in Hammerfest and if you go there today you will see the familiar arc of the Sun from horizon to horizon in an opposite arc to circumpolar motion -

http://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/norway/hammerfest

It is not possible now to explain how the surface rotation as a function of the planet's orbital motion begins to dominate at these latitudes because even the apparent daily arc of the Sun at all latitudes is questioned as an observation.

It was true what Galileo said that your kind would become become extremely ill rather than accept what your eyes are telling you and this is only the apparent daily motion of the Sun and its annual variations in arc and not any translation of these motions in dynamical perspectives -

I have heard such things put forth as I should blush to repeat--not so much to avoid discrediting their authors (whose names could always be withheld) as to refrain from detracting so greatly from the honor of the human race. In the long run my observations have convinced me that some men, reasoning preposterously, first establish some conclusion In their minds which, either because of its being their own or because of their having received it from some person who has their entire confidence, impresses them so deeply that one finds it impossible ever to get it out of their heads. Such arguments in support of their fixed idea as they hit upon themselves or hear set forth by others, no
matter how simple and stupid these may be, gain their instant acceptance and applause. On the other hand whatever is brought forward against it, however ingenious and conclusive, they receive with disdain or with hot rage--if indeed it does not make them ill." Galileo

Do any of you really wish to believe that as you look out at the familiar arc of the Sun today that Polaris will be somewhere between the Sun and the local horizon at noon ?. -

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ole-sunset.htm

This is what you get when you have mathematicians dominating astronomy for centuries, a loss of perspective that is so severe that it constitutes a type of extreme vandalism of pandemic proportions.