Jonathan wrote:

"Rowland McDonnell" wrote:

Us Brits know all about the bad **** *our* nation has done
over the years - we get taught it in school. *WE* don't shy away from
admitting it.


So what's it like to live in a police state?

I don't know: you tell me. Your nation is closer to that description
than is mine.

I spent a week in the DDR once. That wasn't a police state any more
than the modern UK is. I spent a week in the USA once. That's not a
police state either. I know you will dismiss this point as hate-filled
bigotry to save you responding to it, but the DDR had aspects of the
police state about it and *some* of them have been introduced to the USA
since 9/11 but are still very firmly illegal in the UK - the police and
spooks here keep asking for these extra powers, but Parliament keeps
telling them to stuff it.

The DDR's secret police, the Stasi, used powers similar to some of those
granted to US police and intelligence services in the wake of 9/11.
Such powers would have been unthinkable in the USA before that date, but
it seems you lot are sleepwalking into an oppressive regime for the sake
of security.

Wasn't it one of the founding fathers of your nation who made the point
that anyone who gives up liberty in exchange for security - as your
nation has done since 9/11 - deserves neither? Yes, I think it was.

Your criticism of America is biased.

Your criticism of my country is based on total ignorance. Your defence
of America is based on hatred and bigotry and ignorance.

And you possess no sense of humour.

If there's something biased about my criticism, explain where the bias
is. All you've done is launch a hate-filled bigoted attack against me
personally which is based on nothing but your hatred for anyone who
dares to suggest that your nation is less than perfect.

If I have a bias in fact, you will be able to analyse my words and
demonstrate where that bias lies without descending to personal abuse.

So: if you are capable of not descending to personal abuse and can
indeed assemble a coherent factual argument, let's hear it.

But on current showing, your education has been so poor that you are
incapable of an intellectual feat of that nature. I predict that you
will merely hoot and gibber at me some more, like a chimp in a cage at a
zoo.

You see only the negative as you
obviously need something to hate.

I think the USA is a brilliant idea and I'm all in favour of it.

I hate the ignorance and bigotry expressed by people like you.

So what I do is throw back your ignorance and bigotry into your faces -
just turning around the things you lot say about other parts of the
world, but applying them to the USA.

It's called `taking the ****' where I come from. Intelligent people
respond in a good humoured way (although it might be very sharp good
humour). Humourless idiots respond to me by ignoring any points I make
and insulting and attacking me personally. The respond just like you,
complaining about me being `biased' (as if you are not!) and so on - but
they never seem to have any response to the actual arguments I raise
about the flaws of the USA. No response to that at all - it seems that
for all that you claim I'm biased, you don't actually have any reason
for saying that aside from having defined all criticism of the USA as
evidence of bias. You seem to have abandoned the founding ideals of the
USA - rationality and science - and replaced them with bigotry and
faith.

And you lot don't half get cross. It seems that you're happy to dish
out ignorant ravings about other nations, but you get very very cross
indeed when people criticise your own nation. And you're utterly
incapable of addressing any concerns anyone has about your nation:
you've decided that the USA is perfect, and so anyone criticising your
nation must be attacked violently. That sort of behaviour is why so
many people outside the USA are so critical of your compatriots: it's
utterly unreasonable, uncivilised, and very backwards behaviour. But
you're too ignorant to understand that point, aren't you? You're just
not as good a human being as the USAians I've actually met in real life
- you're letting the side down, you are. You're a disgrace to your
country: not up to the standard that I have met in US citizens.

And it's interesting to focus on the fact that your type - and you *are*
a type, there's a lot of you about - never seem to have any argument
against what I say except to tell me that I'm a hate-filled bigot - and
all because I can see that there are things wrong with the way your
country is run and tell you about some of them.

You never have any counter to any points I raise - you just launch
personal attacks against me, exposing the shallowness of your intellect
and your moral bankruptcy for all to see. It's quite funny, watching
you dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole without you even knowing
that you're doing it.

That's why I do it: I happen to think that the USA is a brilliant idea,
but it's broken and it's broken because of hate-filled ignorant bigots
like you. It's not the USA I hate: it's the ignorant bigotry of many of
its citizens that has permitted the USA to leave decent, civilised
values so far behind in recent years.

I've met many, many people from the USA and even in the USA the one time
I visited. Every US citizen I've ever spent any significant time
talking to has turned out to be a decent, educated, cultivated,
intelligent, well-informed reasonable human being who was a pleasure to
converse with - in glaring contrast to *YOU* they were all very nice
people.

People like you are the reason the USA is broken.

Hate-filled ignorant bigots like you refuse to address any criticism of
your nation: you defend all actions of the USA as right and proper, and
you attack anyone criticising the USA as a hated-filled bigot.

That attitude is what is known as `bigotry'.

You never admit that your nation is imperfect - and so, of course, your
nation continues with bad government making bad decisions, messsing up
your nation and others.

If you were at all rational, you would see that much criticism of the
USA is fully justified - and then you'd do something about it and get
the USA working properly.

But not, you're an ignorant bigot, you defend the USA regardless, and -
well, I have a book here by Robert Heinlein: a patriotic American who,
unlike you, volunteered for military service and served his country
bravely until illness forced him to retire from the profession he had
chosen to follow: a military officer defending his nation. I'd shake
his hand - but I'd spit in your face.

Expanded Universe is the book - take a read. Much of my criticism of
the USA is simply repeating what Heinlein explained to me. I get my
information about what's wrong with the USA from loyal, patriotic
Americans like him in many cases - not traitors to its founding
principles like *you* and your `friends'.

Hated-filled bigot - is that who you think Heinlein was, eh?

He explained that was *certain* that the USA could never ever start a
war against another nation. But your nation, the USA, has in fact gone
off the rails so far since Heinlein's death that is *HAS* done so -
invaded Iraq!

But you don't see any problem with that, do you?

There is only one way to knock America
down to size, to diminish our influence
and power. The only way is for other countries
to become free market democracies.

There are no free markets in the world, and the only democractic nation
in the world is Switzerland. The USA is one of the least democratic
`democratic' nations going - although the UK is even less democratic
(it's quite funny: the UK, `mother of all parliaments', `home of
democracy' - but we don't have democracy!). Democracy is denied almost
everyone in the world.

Also: all markets are heavily regulated and utterly un-free; hence, for
example, recent WTO sanctions against the USA for failing to scrap its
illegal farm subsidies which are - along with other similar subsidies
elsewhere in the world - the cause of much famine and hardship in Africa
and the developing world generally.

So: it might well be that democracy and free markets are a good idea.
But we don't have 'em and never have had. The USA has some of the least
free markets in the `developed' world, which is why the WTO spends so
much time threatening and sometimes implementing economic sanctions
against the USA - the USA has far too many illegal protectionist
measures implemented by the US government to distort the so-called `free
market' and `protect' its businesses at home. At the same time as the
US government demands that other nations dismantle *their* trade
barriers, the US government refuses to take down its own trade barriers!

You need to learn how the world works. And get yourself a sense of
humour and a sense of perspective. And learn how to stop hating -
you've got far too much hatred inside you against `outsiders', haven't
you? It's one of the signs of your bigotry that I mentioned.

[snip]

Rowland.

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