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Old September 14th 04, 01:27 PM
nightbat
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Ray Vingnutte wrote:

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:51:54 -0500
nightbat wrote:

nightbat wrote

Ray Vingnutte wrote:


nightbat

Quantum computing is just that, human programed sequencing.
Whether virtual game programing or program analyzing and reporting. A
computer is a human engineered machine tool, not a true reality, never
can be.



Ray
Well this is the crux of the matter isn't it, what is real?, how can you
be sure that a computer is not a true reality, I don't mean the type of
computing we have today, computers of the future will I am sure bare
little or no relation to what we know as computers today.


nightbat

Ray, computers are real man made machines like your tv, radio,
juice mixer, toaster, etc. Humans are not machines or in abstract
theorist hypothesized computer simulations for they are bio life forms,
with certain abilities of mental processing, original thinking capacity,
free willed, cognitive thinking organisms. Machines can only do what
they have been programed to do, even into the far future with improved
human mental mimicking and memory handling, with or without energized
power plug, they will remain a pile of programed lifeless inorganic
matter.


Ray

How can you
or any of us be sure that that is not going to be the true reality
one day. Can you really be sure that it has not already happened out
there somewhere?. Can you really nail your colors to the pole and be
that absolutely sure?.



nightbat

Of course Ray, apparently reality confusion has happened
already, and you're a prime example of it. Most sensible folks however
have and rely on general co comparing anchoring systems, to determine
what reality is. For instance scientists and researcher's rely only on
co affirmed observations, mathematical proofs, and established accepted
frame evidence comparative analysis ( Standard Model ). Fantasy and sci
fi and artificial computer simulation doesn't meet any of this criteria.
Why, because it is artificially man made only to reflect what it is
programed to do. Your TV is not true reality, it is an electric set
programed to receive signals and reprocess them so you can view them, as
reflected entertainment including games, educational, commercial shows,
or live and recorded news reporting. It is not true reality because it
is a machine consisting of logic circuit boards and other components
designed for that purpose only. What you're viewing can appear very real
but it is always a reproduction of man made or actual events. Same with
a logic circuit board based computer program simulation, not real but
excellent human inputted limited processing and program handling.

Ray
On a quantum level nothing seems real, take common sense with you down
to a quantum level and you have had it, you will get no where. On a
quantum level there is no common sense


nightbat

On the physics quantum level you are in the sub micro
uncertainty field state level, purely governed by known effects because
you're dealing with invisible particles. Again mentioned frame effect
anchoring but more difficult because of the quantum nature of the fast
moving invisible particles. Common macro based framed sense is not
applicable in the realm of quantum physics because only their evidence
effects are. Very much as the micro germ theory was non per face value
visual frame common sense based because of the invisible nature of sub
microscopic germ organisms. But via scientific vigorous method
application and theoretical deduction via cross environment data,
attending health record care specialists, and patient pathology effects,
they were deduced before even being able to be actually examined until
the invention of the microscope. It was painstaking evidence that paved
the way into the quantum world not fantasy.


Artificial intelligence is artificial, not real. Very much as
an man made game can appear real to a person or child, but it is not
nor ever will be, real.



Ray
Can you really be sure of that?, I mean really really sure that one day
it could be the true reality, and as Bostron and co would suggest maybe
it has already happened.


nightbat

Fantasy computer virtual reality is already here, but it is not
true reality because it is a man made machine based artificial one. Can
you tell the difference between natural real orange juice or man made
processed one? Or any other man made processed foods, many times
probably not, hence need for frame truth in processing food labels. What
is organically grown food versus artificial chemical added, genetically
hybrid altered, and pesticide sprayed? Frame label basing, evidence, so
you can help distinguish one from the other when man artificially
manipulated.



A machine, artificial object, or virtual
reality sequence can appear very real but it is an simulation, not to
be confused with what is real or reality. Don't go to Hollywood if you
have trouble distinguishing between reality and make believe, they
don't call it magic for nothing.



Ray
I do not have any trouble distinguishing Hollywood from reality, but
I know many people do.


nightbat

Correct Ray, because you know Hollywood is fantasy frame based
so that alone puts you on comparative true understood reality frame
basis verses simulated one.


That which is not evidence based,
mathematically proofed, or observationally co peer confirmed is
imaginary and sci fi illusory. Don't worry apparently millions are
having the same problem of distinguishing between very realistic
fantasy game role playing or artificial intelligence and actual
reality.


Ray
I am the one who said sci fi should be kept out of this, you are the one
who keeps going on about sci fi, you are the one who keeps linking this
with sci fi and Hollywood not I. I am not interested in Hollywood's
version of what is or may be,Hollywood is bunkum.


nightbat

You keep requesting that what is sci fi be kept out of what is
real science, yet you apparently accept man made computer virtual
reality or simulation as potentially real and it is not, it is
artificial man made reality. Just as string and M theory is not based on
any real correlating evidence frame, it is all man made abstract
theoretical mathematical derived hypothesis, and without correlating
frame evidence or observation, therefore, non real world based.


Ray
You keep going on about reality, but it is only our interpretaion
of what is reality or not, how do we or you or anyone know for
sure what the true reality is?.


nightbat

Ray, it is you who keeps trying to get clarification of what is
true reality and making a defensive case for man made computer generated
virtual reality presented and co affirmed by some theorists as possibly
being extended and applied to our real one, and it is not. Forget
referenced and example Hollywood in this discussion, computer generated
reality is pure machine generated fantasy for roll playing and logic
preprogram handling. You also extend your argument into reality
questioning based on reasoning if man can create artificial virtual
computer reality then how do we know if true reality isn't a game
sequence itself? Because of co peer anchor frame basing, evidence proof
requirement, and in the absence of it, it is pure fantasy and sci fi.
Now you know why I'm a champion of need for cautionary sci fi labeling
to avoid possibility of more and more general public human true reality
disruption and corruption (especially of adult dependent children) via
increasing artificial based imputed and promoted non labeled
formulations and further non evidence spin off framing.

It has been fun talking with you Ray, Ray, Ray, sorry must have been a
program glitch in my imputed logic sensors, ha, ha, ha, it happens
sometimes since I am computer generated artificial intelligence not.

ponder on,
the nightbat