On Oct 12, 2:06*am, "Painius" wrote:
"oldcoot" sed :

* * * * * * * * *Math, in its secondary, descriptive 'bookeeping'
role, is fine. But when math is given Primacy and then *applied to a
false premise*, a "trainwreck" results.. like the epicycles of
geocentrism and the 'sidebars' of the VSP.

But it's all there is for now, oc. *Science does not yet
know enough about gravity to go any farther than the
theoretical math of GR. *Spacetime curves, but that
can't be completely real because, well, there's really
nothing there to actually curve. *So GR must mean
that "spacetime curves" thing as an abstract concept
of mathematics. *How can it be anything else? *head
scratch

Bingo, amigo. "Space-time" is a pure abstraction, albeit one that
'works' amazingly well mathematically as a *description* of
Something.. "Something-whose-existance-must-be denied-at-all-cost".
When Uncle Albert trotted out his innocuous little statement,
"Remember, gentlemen, we have not proven that the aether does not
exist, we have only proven that we do not need it (for mathematical
purposes)", the mainstream pounced on it and spun it as heralding a
new age of reason in science. Math now supplanted the old
superstition. The "aether" was dead. The Primacy of Math doctrine was
born. And the rest is history. "Space-time" became Uncle A's
euphamism, his surrogate, FOR the "aether", the spatial medium we now
recognize as the sub-Planck(ian) energy domain or SPED. Once the
reality of the SPED is recognized, the need for abstract code words
and euphamisms evaporates. "4-D fields", geometry, "space-time" and
'curvature' thereof, are now recognized as mere *descriptions of
effects*. We finally recognize the very real _mechanism_ responsible
for causing those effects.

Until science finally decides to face the truth, that the
UGLY, despicable, HATED, asinine, INFANTILE concept
of the ugh! *a e t h e r *arghh! is just as *REAL*
now as it was before Einstein trotted his two little legs
on the scene, until they realize that this aether is no
more, no less than a huge expanse of energy, whose
frequency of vibration is SO high, whose wavelengths
are SO tiny and minuscule so that it behaves almost
completely particle-like, and that it is this very real
attribute of space that energetically FLOWS into mass
and thereby directly causes gravity, science will sadly
continue to run around in random fashion just like the
classic "Brownian motion".

The old rigid/immobile "aether" of Lorentz and Einstein was thrown out
and rightly so. It just needed one major modification : recognize it
as NOT rigid/immobile but highly mobile, fluidic, compressible/
expansible, and amenable to density gradients. The baby was thrown out
with the bathwater and the "afterbirth", the VSP and Pof M, raised
instead.

Science needs to take an objective "random walk"
down the distasteful path of self-scrutiny. *The ego of
science is far too great for its own good. *A wakeup
call might be coming soon, and science is ill-prepared.

Fighting the "primacy of math" as you've defined it
above is like David facing Goliath without a slingshot.

* * *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk

It won't happen anytime in the foreseeable future, and just as well
considering humanity's present level of maturity. Science will remain
safely "corraled" in the playpen of the VSP.