On Oct 11, 6:32 am, BradGuth wrote:
On Oct 11, 5:41 am, "Chris C. Larson"
wrote:





On Oct 10, 11:16 pm, BradGuth wrote:

On Oct 10, 6:27 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:

Life is the result of the unstable equilibrium, or phase transition, between
opposite extremes in possibility. But not opposite extremes in only
magnitude or space, but qualitative opposites as well. For instance
starting with the abstract example of this critical relationship...

The opposite extremes of solids and gasses, when in an unstable
equilibrium with each other, or at the phase transition between
each other, produce the life favoring conditions of fluids.
As in

solid fluids gasses
ice water vapor

.....or more generically

static dynamic chaotic

The static and chaotic forms of any given system are opposite
extremes of each other, and by themselves are considered
to be simple systems. The static and chaotic opposite extremes
are considered simple because only one realm of science
is needed for each, either classical or quantum like realms.

For static systems with relatively few variables and simple
motion, classical methods that deal with Newtonian like
systems are sufficient.
For chaotic systems, with near infinite variables and
quantum like motion, statistical like methods are
equally sufficient to understand the system.

But at the phase transition between the two opposite
forms, it is no longer possible to use one-or-the-other
types of methods as /BOTH/ kinds of motion or behavior
coexist simultaneously. As in a simple cloud. Or as
in the dual nature of light. Acting as either a particle
or a wave depending on how it's observed.

So, the phase transition state between the opposite
extremes is considered the "complex realm". Since both
well-known realms of science are equally unable to fully
describe the system. Bother classical and quantum like
methods are required simultaneously.

Another term for this phase transition state between opposite
extremes in called 'the edge of chaos'...or the 'complex realm'.

For instance, in weather prediction. The complex realm would
be the point at which relatively precise predictions based on
detailed initial conditions transitions to statistical predictions
based on longer term averages etc. Or that fuzzy place where
predicting is considered more art than science.

The complex realm of fluids and clouds. Or for a solar system
the complex realm where hot planets transition to frozen ones.
Or for a society, where the opposite extremes of rules and freedom
coexist in an unstable equilibriun. A system not dominated
by either opposite. This is the real world complex realm
that defies conventional (pre-chaos theory) approaches
such as emotions, art and philosophy.

static dynamic complex

It is this emergent middle dynamic (complex) real world
realm that is the source of all visible order in the universe.
Including the opposite extremes of the physical and
living universes. As the very same complex relationship
works as well for clouds as it does for Darwinian
evolution. As in...

genetics selection mutation

Spontaneous order, and creation itself is found where
the opposite extremes in possibility coexist so that
one can't tell which-is-which. As in

male creation female

So to find life, any kind of life under the sun, one should
simply begin by first defining the opposite extremes in
possibility for the system at hand. For instance, in a
solar system, one would look for the planet that displays
both extremes at once, if it exists. In our case
where a planet displays /BOTH/ static (solid) and
chaotic (gaseous) properties at once and in relative
equilibrium.

static dynamic chaotic

little changing orderly change chaotic change

mars earth venus

On earth the dynamic, fluid like biosphere emerges
from a system where neither geology dominates, as with
mars, or the atmosphere dominates, as with venus.

Where both opposite extremes are in equilibrium and constantly
transitioning between the two, is where increasing order, complexity
and life is found. As in the Mona Lisa smile, which is it?
Devious of happy? If you can't tell which opposite extreme
dominates, you're at the complex 'edge', where beauty and
wisdom resides, where spontaneous order and
creation is found. Where systems self-organize
and take on a life of its own.

Where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

For starters, we are not talking about Earth, or even that of our
weird moon, of Mars or of whatever's so much further away. Venus is
extremely nearby, and it's absolutely chuck full of its own raw energy
that only a born-again dork of a naysayer like yourself couldn't
possibly appreciate.

In other words, your whole of whatever's greater simply has to go out
of its way in order to exclude upon intelligent other life regardless
of whatever's the applied technology, or even regardless of whatever's
the alternative evolution of which you know absolutely nothing about.

Please do further explain as to those very intelligent and/or rational
looking items as somehow being purely natural, and by way of example
as to sharing in where such a rational complex community looking group
of considerations are otherwise to be found within common planetology
w/o benefit of whatever intelligent life, such as right here on Earth.

For one basic example; How many tarmacs are there on Earth that had
absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with intelligent life?
- Brad Guth -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A more appropriate question: Why is it that the only anti-semitic
morons out there are those who have not met any Jews?

As I've said a thousand times before, I've met and worked for many
Jews that would not so much as hurt a Muslim fly, much less attack our
USS LIBERTY or knowingly create the fiasco likes of 9/11. I've also
met and worked for a few Jews that most certainly would.

It must be, because unlike yourself I'm only anti-bad-guy, and if
that's our having to be within your 'no such thing as a bad Yid'
interpretation of anti-semitic, then so be it.

Are you and others of your silly kind afraid that Venus has been
Muslim or perhaps Cathar/Kathar?
- Brad Guth -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You were doing so well. C'mon lets work together, but remember Baby
steps. Deep breath in, hold hold hold let go now let go. Think of
those things that bothered you when you were young, Deep breath in,
hold hold hold now let go. Think, but remember good thoughts. Fall
backs happen but we'll overcome. (don't forget the ban on spilling
seed on the ground you'll appreciate it upon breakthrough) hold hold
hold................Doc