HW@....(Henri Wilson) wrote in
:

On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 04:01:42 +0000 (UTC), bz
wrote:

HW@....(Henri Wilson) wrote in
m:

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 00:27:10 +0000 (UTC), bz
wrote:

HW@....(Henri Wilson) wrote in
m:

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 20:00:07 +0000 (UTC), bz
wrote:
.....
If the star moves (and many do) significantly between the time the
slow photons were emitted and when the fast photons were emitted, then
the images formed by each would be in significantly different
locations in the sky.

yes but the light still travels through quite similar regions of
space.

I don't understand the relevence.

I am trying to figure out why we don't see multiple images. Light
traveling through similar regions will do nothing to prevent that. So
what is the relevance?

I htink you have i mind optical effects. that's different..

If BaTh predicts optical effects (it does)
and we do not see those optical effects (we don't)
then BaTh is invalidated.


The photons would NOT merge into a single image any more than the
red and green lights merge into a single white light.

Well you can speculate as much as you like about this bob.
I can't afford to worry about it at this stage.

I suggest that you can not afford NOT to worry about it
because it may, by itself, drain the BaTh of all viability as a model.

The fact that is models many brightness curves is clear support for
its validity.

Any curve can be reproduced by the sum of sines.

Bob, my program doesn't produce a range of sines and add them together
to get a result.
It simulates c+v light, that's all.

Henri, your program 'simulates c+v light' emitted by a moving source along
a single line of sight.

You stick a 'bundle of photons' into a 'packet of photons'. You compute the
speed of that bundle by calculating the relative velocity of the source wrt
earth along that line of sight(you use trig[cosines {sines shifted by 90
degrees}] to do this).

You then allow those packets to travel the distance to earth and calculate
the total photons at any particular point along the way at any particular
time.

What you are doing is equivalent to summing three different scaled sine
functions. The scaling proportional to the distance traveled and the
velocity.

The phase of each of the three functions represents the eccentricity, and
the tilts of the orbit in two different planes.

[hint, I have just given you a method to figure out the answer the 'what
formula does your program use' questions.]

.....

They approach 'c+u' photons.

You introduce u as a new variable. What is its significance?

Ther speed wrt their source is changing continuously. Every swirl in
space has a different speed wrt the source and light passing through
tends toward the equilibrium EM speed in that swirl....so u might be
anything...

This theory would imply that stars beyond gas clouds that are moving with
high velocities wrt earth would have their images displaced in the
direction of the motion of the gas clouds.

The telescope filled with moving water showed that there would be such an
effect when moving through dense media. This is consistent with SR as well
as with BaTh.

It would be very interesting if you could show that photons moving through
a gas cloud RETAINED the velocity that they had in the cloud, even when
they leave that cloud. BaTh would predict the retention of that velocity.

After all, how can those photons know to slow back down(or speed back up)
just because they have entered empty space?

They would then be that much earlier (or later) when they arrive here than
other photons emitted by the same source that missed going through the gas
cloud they went through. And their image would be displaced from the image
drawn by those photons.

.....
There is no way I can fiddle the results.

Who said anything about 'fiddling' the results?

The program has several parameters that anyone can vary.

The idea is to feed in the known values of those parameters...if they
can be obtained.

If that produces results that differ from known brightness curves, you
modify the parameters or your program until the curves look more realistic.

That is the way that model builders work. There is nothing wrong with that.

Once a match is found, you try to figure out why you had to modify the
parameters.

.....
One might come to that conclusion if the effect wasn't so
consistent. The plain fact is, the BaTh matches many brightness
curves very closely. The only problem is that the distances are
usually too short.

That sum of sines, as mentioned, can do the same.

No it cannot...although I suppose any ellipse is the sum of two sines
90 out.

Since your program is just summing, phasing and scaling sine waves,
any waveform it produces can clearly be produced by summed, phased and
scaled sine waves.

Yes it's called fourier analysis.

The decomposition of the curve is.
Building the original curve from sines has a different name.

My program doesn't rely on that.

In effect, it does the same thing.

The question is how many are actually due to BaTh.
More and more it looks like less and less.

I say the brightness variation of huff-puff stars is still largely a
consequence of the BaTh.

The data does not seem support that assertion.

Astronomers are still completely mystified by the behavior of cepheids.
That's becasue they are indoctrinated with Einsteiniana.

I don't think 'completely mystified' is a correct description. There are
models that are consistent with everything we know that are very good at
reproducing their behavior.

.....
Actually if the observer lies well beyoind the critical distance, no
brightness variation is to be expected, even without unification.

Beyond means inside or outside????
Too close or too far away?

too far a away....but that shouldn't happen because of extinction
anyway..

Then we can not see BaTh variable stars in distant galaxies. All
variables there are eclipsing or cephied or some other but not BaTh?

I know we see pulsars in distant galaxies..but nothing much else...

Cepheid variables are used to determine the distance of many galaxies.

Any way you are wrong. The brightness pattern settles down to virtually
its asymptotic state at the extinction distance. The curves will remain
the same beyond that distance.

You were the one that said 'no brightness variation is to be expected
[beyond the critical distance].'

Did you mean that once past that distance the 'variability' pattern is
'set' and will not change?

.....
Even SR says an observer will measure the approach of light towards
other moving objects as being different from c. That is what the BaTh
is based on.

SR uses 'composition' of velocities and any velocity composed with c is
c.

If you are talking about
A B
D

and D calculating that light emitted by A may be approaching B at a
speed different from c, you are incorrect.

No I'm not.
That has been made clear by many SRians here. Light can be assessed to
be approaching another object at other than c.

By SR, from the viewpoint of the receiver of the photons, the photons are
always traveling at c, from the moment emitted until they are receive.

The third party observer, D, must use the same formula that B uses when
calculating what B will see when the photons arrive from A.

D may, of course, look at things from D's viewpoint and see that the
photons from A will arrive sooner (or later) at B because A is in motion
wrt B, but when D computes what B will see, s/he must compute things as
seen from B's viewpoint.

That's all my program requires.

Your program is NOT consistent with SR because it has the photons leaving
the source at c'=c+v and traveling toward the earth at that velocity for
some time wrt the viewer on earth.

That is consistent with BaTh but NOT with SR.

We can usually tell by the type of spectrum if two stars are
contributing to a 'point source'.


Only if they are from different stellar families.

which they often are.
Agreed. but if they are not then we could not tell if it was a single
star or a double star if their orbit was perpendicular to the line of
sight to earth.

Correct. that still leaves about 80% that WILL show two spectra.

Those should ALL be Wilson variables. Most are not. Bad for BaTh.




--
bz

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

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