Matt Giwer ) wrote:
: Paul F. Dietz wrote:
: Matt Giwer wrote:

: The thread of course covered exploration of the physical world as
: in Columbus. And I pointed out just how damned few explorers like him
: there have been.

: It's a bait and switch argument. In order to justify government
: funding for space exploration, the proponent claims that exploration
: is an inherent human drive and, as evidence, points out all
: sorts of human activities that could be called 'exploration',
: not just of the geographical variety.

: The problem is that if exploration is defined that broadly, why
: is only space exploration able to satisfy this putative drive?

: (I will leave aside the question of whether something being
: a human drive is sufficient to justify government subsidy.)

: Also it sells in America as it goes along with the western frontier mythos.

So does the need for a strong national defense.

: Exploring space? You can see it. You mean exploring a few moons and the one planet that people
: actually can? In this reality people "explored" for profit. Columbus for the spice trade. Lewis and
: Clark for pay. The American west for the fur trade.

"Lewis and Clark for pay?" You need to explain how that wasn't pure
socialism.

: Find something profitable on the moon and people will get there. Unfortunately at current prices
: there isn't anything worth bringing back from the moon if it were on pallets ready for pickup.

So? Again, neither was there during the Lewis and Clark explorations. The
US government sent John Wesley Powell to the Grand Canyon, too. Care to
explain what that was worth.

: The science is going to great if there are a lot of trips to a lot of different places on the moon.
: Most places to land for samples will be like randomly exploring earth and bringing back dirt and
: common stones. Percentagewise there are not many places on Earth that are interesting to study.

Others disagree with you.

: Mars will be interesting for comparative meteorology if supercomputers don't solve problems first.
: But meteorology is most all about automated weather stations which can be delivered by rocket. If
: there isn't diverse life on Mars it will be as rewarding as bringing back dirt from the Moon.

We'll never know unless we go.

: If prices come down and solar sails and such pan out bringing a thousand tons of iron asteroid to
: L5 might pay off, if we still use much iron and nickel by the time it is possible. But then it is
: only good for building in space unless return to earth becomes extremely cheap.

: And then we still haven't has a real accident yet even on the level of Dead Like Me where a falling
: toilet seat kills someone. It is going to happen. We are getting into the period where lots of
: things start de-orbiting and it will go on as long as there is LEO activity. I know the reality but
: there are plenty of scare mongers from the anti-nuke groups with idle hands.

: I'm all for it really. Flying cities migrating to other solar systems as this one gets too crowded.
: My first SF novel was Red Planet and I read it about the same year it was published. Over the years
: realism replaced optimism as it has for all the people who are trying to get into space for cheap.

: Right now the space elevator folks are confident nanotubes will be strong enough with the only
: problem how to weave them. In the mean time NASA is going to drop over $100 billion building a
: modern version of the first moon lander instead of into weaving.

Most people can't deal with the aspect of space travel/exploration as
being the stepping-stone of bigger things to come. Our 'instant
gratification' society wants the whole thing to happen on their shedule
and be home by dinner time. Apollo spoiled us. The next major breakthru
might take several decades rather than before the decade is out. IOW, you
might not live to see it and must understand that that is the way it is!

Eric

: --
: Denying the holocaust is to hating Jews as denying Jesus is to hating
: (a) The New York Yankees.
: (b) Alien space invaders.
: (c) Christians.
: -- The Iron Webmaster, 3498
: nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
: Old Testament http://www.giwersworld.org/bible/ot.phtml a6