On 6 Aug 2005 02:05:28 -0700, "Alex Terrell"
wrote:

The art work coming out of NASA and other sources seems to imply an
Apollo approach, namely, land your capsule on the moon, explore, launch
most of your capsule back, and then discard it.

It seems possible that they could go into orbit around the Earth and
to drop if off. That way they could reuse it, but that depends on
maintenance.

At least the Apollo program had the sense to leave the Rovers and Flags
behind! The Apollo ascent stage weighed 4.54 tons.

Obviously. They did take back a lot of moon rocks though.

Approximately, to launch 1 ton from the moon requires 1 ton of fuel,
making 2 tons to be landed. To land 2 tons on the moon needs about 15
tons in Low Earth Orbit. So a 15:1 ratio from Low Earth Orbit to Lunar
surface to Lunar Orbit.

So why not seek to minimise the mass launched from the lunar surface to
the orbiting CEV?

The idea has hope.

This could be done by landing on the lunar surface a standard 10 ton
pallet* consisting of a 7 ton habitation module, an asecender stage and
fuel for the ascender.

Given the astroanuts will need to suit up to leave the hab module, and
the journey from surface to CEV needs to be only and hour or so, an
unpressurised, unfueled ascender could weigh in at 1.5 tons, even with
a crew of 4.

That makes 2.5 to 3 tons fueled then?

The current approach can only land a 5 ton hab module as part of a 10
ton landing.

They are sure to land their hab module, and more, as part of a cargo
only landing. Should they actually have the hardware to be able to do
that, which seems likely with a little foresight. No use linking
people and cargo into a locked joint system.

To begin with though they won't bother with a hab module at all. Just
a usual land, look around, and depart. NASA I guess is unlikely to
think "base" until 2020. That is if they land on the Moon in 2018 as
planned.

Not that this seems like the best plan if you ask me.

Alos, with the proposed approach the hab module can be
reused for later missions, should these come to the same location. (As
they will when a proper base needs to be established)

So that is a one shot mission. Not the best idea to build a new man
rated vehicle for a one shot use. And what about when they want to
visit another location? No chance of them dropping a hab module down
every place that they go.

Is this approach feasible or likely?

You seem to forget the Apollo 13 problem. As just what would your
astronauts do if their CEV breaks down somewhere during this lunar
trip? Based on your idea they would die.

The Lunar Lander can be used as a back-up should the CEV break down.

Cardman.