Cherokee don't feel bad about not being able to detect those NGC's, you are
not the only one.. I recently got a XT8 from orion and I had the same
"problem". I was also using Nigh****ch, and telrad to help me find stuff, I
quicky learned to locate Vega, Deneb and Altair, Polaris too and all from
the big dipper. Anyhow, I have not had much luck finding the NGC's myself,
so it's sort of dissapoing. Anyhow, I'll try again tonight, hopefully it
will be as nice of a night as it was last night.