"Ioannis" wrote in message
...
? "By-Tor" ?????? ??? ??????
...

It used to be that it took some skill to use a
scope, you learned the night sky, you star hopped you figured out
where
your...was and you didn't need both hands and a government agency to
tell you where it was.

I agree with this part. Too many new amateurs
are just "appliance operators."

One could probably devise a short observing test, using an amateurish
scope
to distinguish "appliance operators" from serious amateurs.

My favourite would be searching, finding and _seeing_ Uranus, using any
non-toy telescope. Telescope. NOT binoculars!

After 20+ years of observing, I still haven't seen it.
snip


*This* is a bigger problem in amateur astronomy, in my opinion, than lots of
people buying telescopes (which is FANTASTIC and not a problem at all). One
might get the impression that you were never a 'non-serious' amateur. You
never needed some coaching when you started out? You didn't buy the best
scope you could afford at the time? You didn't use as many means as
possible to communicate with other amateurs and ask them what was good to
find or look at?

People ought to take their head from their butts and start distributing the
ideas and knowledge they have (in some cases) worked hard to gain. Some do,
but lots scoff at people who don't know the minimum number of hops to some
obscure variable star... Indeed, your looking at the sky, not building a
time machine or explaining quantum mechanics... Lucky there are decent
people, like the QCUIAG group for example, who pass on their understanding,
their ideas, their experiences and skills, etc to others without gripe or
most of us would still be using film to photograph the sky before scanning
it and posting on the internet. Why use a calculator when you have pen and
paper? Why use the internet when you can chat all you like through your
local astronomy club? Get a grip folks... These new fangled GOTO scopes
are probably what you would buy if you were saving for your first (or 2nd)
scope these days.

Remember that no matter how much you know, there is always someone who knows
something that you don't (and often knows more than you!) Sour grapes,
jealousy and pomposity don't particularly advance the community much.

On another note: 20+ years and you still can't find Uranus? *s*******
Hmmm... Does that make you an appliance operator? Maybe just in need of
assistance? Try posting on this newsgroup, they are very helpful

Cheers
--
K. removing tongue from cheek