On Jan 27, 12:34*pm, American wrote:
On Jan 26, 8:07*pm, Frogwatch wrote:

...........................................*That is, it will either destroy itself
(unlikely) or will encode itself into the information contained in the
universe so it has no conventional physical form. *You may not agree
with this but it makes sense to me given the rate of technical
advances.

Thus physical form implies a type of decay that (eventually) invited
conflict between various species of intelligent life - intelligent
life that may have argued more about whose dominion either withstood
or accepted the way in which the "intelligent growth" made itself
known - freely and without reservation - as all intelligent and thus
benevolent species are known to exist.

I assume that the universe is about 15 billion years old and that life
could not begin to exist until about 5 billion years later when there
was sufficient “metal” in the universe from fast burning stars. *So,
since 10 billion years ago, there have been only 100,000 civilization
lifetimes. *Divide the number of civilizations EVER in the galaxy by
this number of lifetimes and you get an estimate of the number of
visible civilizations in the galaxy NOW. *I get ………only, 270.

270 is a small number in a big galaxy.

A small number of ET's in the galaxy does not make our own
civilization's potential for FTL transportation invalid, it just makes
us more like a race of progenitors that may have been tweaking our
biogene over the centuries. Perhaps these progenitors, as well as our
own, may already not be so location-specific, esp. if our own had
already split and migrated to one of the many metal-rich G2V stars
existing throughout the galaxy.



Now, the Milky Way galaxy is 100,000 light years (LY) radius and 2000
LY thick giving a volume of 1.26E14 cubic LY or CLY. *Assume our
civilizations are spread equally throughout giving each one 4.65 E11
CLY. *What is the distance to the edge of such a cube with this
volume, this distance being the distance to the “boundary” of the next
civilization? *Simple, take the cube root of this number and divide by
2 giving 3870 LY. *This means we can expect that the closest
civilization to be no closer than 3870 LY although since we assumed
the civilizations are located at the center of these cubes it is
actually double this distance or 7740 LY.

Read last point.



I assume that any ET visiting earth can not move faster than c. *If
they can move faster than c then the universe gets enormously bigger
because they are no longer constrained by moving just one direction in
time so they could just as easily visit all of the 27 million
civilizations that have ever existed before us and all of those that
will exist after us and soon one civilization will look like another.
Really, how many data points do you need?
So, our ETs move below c.

I'm not so sure that your "one direction in time" works with parallel
universe theory. According to this theory, there may be an infinite
number of directions in time, while only a small fraction of the
universe that supports life might be a universe in which protons could
not transform into neutrons, for example.

This event would have happened after the first second - 3 minutes
after creation, ending up with a parallel universe consisting of 3
fundamental forces instead of the usual 4. Now imagine how this
scenario, played out over an alternate civilization's timeline, would
affect even the consciousness of the alien life form - perhaps some
form of our own progenitors were created this way - perhaps not. One
might wonder which one ended up with a life expectancy of over a
thousand years.

All ET's therefore may or may not have moved above c, while some have
discovered a life-changing implication that FTL velocities might
forfeit the weak nuclear force, with other parameters changing the way
in which nuclear fusion occurs in (specifically) the metal-rich stars.

In that case, the ET's would have had to perform an entirely new
survey of their own galactic sector, in order to find out where the
new habitable sectors lie, with a completely different set of
civilizations, developing under completely different circumstances.





Say, 10,000 years ago, using gravitational lensing from a star, our
ETs looked at earth and saw the beginnings of civilization. *Well, it
took the light from those mud huts 7740 years to reach them before
they hopped in their spaceships moving at .999c meaning their
spaceships will be here in 2260 years.

Now, you can change any of my numbers a lot, say increase the age of a
civilization by a factor of 10 to be a million years and the ultimate
result does not change much, it is still a very long way (over 1000
LY) to the nearest civilization. *You would have to change two or more
of my numbers by a large amount to get much of a change and I think
this is unlikely.

Consequently, I do not believe in flying saucers.

Never heard of the Nephilim? Ezekiel's wheel? Area 51?

Unless you're of the reptilian genre, perhaps no more than 90
civilizations throughout the (underground's) known cosmos are at war
with the other 2/3.

In that case, the total of our original universe's civilizations
amounted to 90(3) = 270, which is what you have already given, in
addition to 270 of the alternate universe's, amounting to 540.

This of course, assumes that only one parallel universe exists
alongside our own, with ET's traveling between universes, and
intermingling with civilizations to form an altogether new species of
ET.

If we allow species intermingling over time, then we can add another
270 "species specific" civilizations over time, amounting to a grand
total of 270(3) = 810.

Other parallel universes might yield additional increments of 270.

American

"To many, politics is a game with two sides and a fence."

"We seek to make the unconscious a self-made machine."

*- Anon

Reptilian? I am an amphibian you dimwit.