On May 20, 5:48*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message

...

I'm all for going forward. *However, dragging along a million some odd
spare deadbeats, scum of the Earth and masters of systematic
debauchery is going to be spendy and chock full of naysay,
obfuscation, denials, weird little surprises of taboo and
nondisclosure criteria plus continued moderation as to whatever can or
can not get published in whatever public media or textbook.
If your CAS has any chance, it'll have to be private funded unless
China or India that do not have the kinds of old guard skeletons, need-
to-know and nondisclosure walls getting in the way.

People seem to think I'm making this stuff up myself. The textbooks
have been few and varied over the past due to how recent and rapidly
changing this field is. But there's plenty out there now.

What I like to do in my rants is assume the ideas are valid, and run
with them to their logical limits. *That's all, but the rants are based
on how I understand the concepts of complexity science.

I fully agree with the notions of exploring the mostly robotic CAS
technology, mostly because I have several applications that most
anyone would die for having such an option.


One of the few complete texts is below, and it's from a graduate course
taught at MIT by a well known Harvard prof.http://necsi.org/publications/dcs/

A great place is essay form that discusses the key ideas is here.
It's far better to deal with the concepts long before attempting
any of the math.http://www.calresco.org/themes.htm

A more concise faq page.http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm

Let me try again to get the basic idea across, because once it sinks
in nothing ever looks the same again.

Imagine some mass that's hovering between two magnets, the forces
of the *magnets manage to keep the mass hovering at rest between them.
If you disturb the mass then imagine it starts moving quickly back and forth
between the two magnets. If that becomes persistent, if it just keeps
moving chaotically back and forth, , then cyclic *behavior has emerged
from random motion. Or order has increased *due to a random event.
The parts are said to 'tremble'. when at such an unstable equilibrium.
Neither opposite 'magnet' dominates, and which does at any given
time is unstable.

It's CRUCIAL to appreciate the dominance of emergent system properties.

Like market forces, at this unstable equilibrium of opposites, all kinds of
self correcting and feedback mechanisms emerge to cause the system
to self tune towards the optimum. The point is that such emergent properties
are the most important variables of all *concerning the future of that system.

Just as hurricanes *and lightning emerge from the persistent balance between
condensation and *evaporation. Or that narrow temperature change where
water just boils, but*not quite.

A persistent balance between opposing types of motion.

Simple rules/classical motion * * *VS. * *Randomness/quantum motion
* * * * * * (Static attractor) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * (Chaotic attractor)
* * * * * * * *(subcritical)
(supercritical)

For a cloud *The subcritical beahvior of condensation, causing behavior
to become simpler or predictable, as in water. *And the opposing force of
evaporation, a supercritical behavior that tends to produce more complicated
behavior as in a gas. Emergence takes place when these opposing
forces are in an persistent unstable balance with each other. Emergent
properties like lightning and hurricanes are spontaneouldy created.
Which follow power law dynamics.

For a society, the static attractor of the rule of law vs the opposing force
of freedom (static vs chaotic). When in balance, when the dominance
constantly moves back and forth (vibrates) between them *like the
suspended mass between magnets, then emergent properties
take over, such as life, *markets and democracy.

The ultimate impetus for evolution, emergence and order *r e s u l t s
from this persistent balance of system specific balance between
opposite extremes in possibility space, to put in the abstract.

Where the parts 'tremble' and the whole self tunes as if by invisible hands.

Perhaps a few real hands shouldn't be excluded, whereas at first
perhaps 10% being via human hands, and later on achieving 99% CAS and
merely 1% human assisted.


This is the simplified or basic idea of *a CAS, a particular system structure
as I'm trying to describe. We see this exact behavior all the time.
For instance Iraq. A dictatorship is best described by a static attractor..
Simple, rigid rules. A high level of uniformity or predictability. Analogous
to classical motion. Then in no time the invasion created the opposite.
Unpredictable with no control etc, a chaotic attractor analogous to
quantum like motion. When the two eventually find a balance between
too much law and too much anarchy, then the dynamic attractor of
democracy....emerges. *Guiding and dominating the future of that
system.

So, logically speaking, the missing link between geology and
biology should be a missing link that's equal parts geology and life.
So much so one can't tell which dominates, geology or life.
And now things like mineral and microbial concretions, banded iron
formations and such suddenly take front and center stage in the
search for Creation. As measured by the difficulty to distinquish
whether geological or living processes are the dominant force
for the creation of say a spherical concretion.

Mars just screams that it's position near the edge of the water
zone means it managed to make it to the 'missing link' stage
of creation, but that's about it.

I'd have to agree, that once upon a time Mars was on the edge of
having created and sustaining larger and far more complex forms of
life, quite possibly even by our evolutionary standards somewhat
intelligent, but then something smacked into Mars and most everything
capable of sustaining life as we know it, went to hell.


When you can't tell....where uncertainty or complexity is highest
is always the place to look for and start with. Since emergent
forces are generated there.

Emergent properties create the future.

And here's the thing.

In physics the inverse square law is everywhere. Certaintly a
fundamental relationship of the physical world. Lving systems
have their version found almost everywhere too, power law
behavior.

A power law is *a l s o *an inverse square law.
A more complex or emergent version.

Just as our new version of how to understand reality.
Which is that the fundamental laws are found in the most complex
the universe has to offer......l i f e....not the simplest the universe
has to offer with particles and nuclear forces etc. We should look
to life to show us how the physcial world works.

Our current scientific view is that backwards. Exactly, elegantly
and thoroughly backwards. It's not possible to be more wrong.

If we want to understand the universe and our place in it, we should
stop looking through Hubbles, and start looking deeply into
a mirror.

All the answers of meaning, of fullfillment and importance
are found within. Not on some distant planet or quasar.
But found by the persistent, heated competition, swinging
back and forth, between our scientific knowledge and
our imagination. The static and chaotic must be at simultaneous
maximums with both and neither dominating.

So that an outside observer can't tell which opposing force is
winning, can't tell which-is-which. Where uncertainty is highest.

DON"T YOU SEE NOW why objective reductionist methods
can't see any truths? It's because the truths of our existence are
found where 'uncertainty' and volatility are at absolute maximums.

It's also where the faith-based mindset is in control of most
everything that matters, and otherwise they simply do not police their
own kind, which only makes for most of everything we need to
understand that much worse.


The one and only place quantification and repeatability are impossible.
At the transition between classical and quantum motion.

Now it becomes absolutely obvious and easy to see why all the
efforts at a Grand Unified Theory are futile, even childishly absurd.
Because classical motion (static attractors) and quantum motion
(chaotic attractors) are ....opposing forces. They are two different
things. You cannot put an equal sign between two fundamentally
different things. Not and pass a laugh test.

The simple way around this problem is to just have as an
initial point behavior which displays both types at once.
As in a cloud. The starting point is complexity, not
simplicity, for any system. As at that persistent transition
state the systems all start doing essentially the same thing.
Follow power law dynamics. One model that not only spans
all the disciplines, physical or living, but also provides the
ideal final state for us to pursue.

btw, I can use CAS to create the vast bulk of my LSE-CM/ISS, and to
deal with the planet Venus.

Of course you can. It's so simple. And when properly applied, you'll
find that success is not measured so much in results, but by the quality
of the chase. So any goal must be lofty and unattainable. Yet being
still within the practical realm of possibility. A goal must grandiose, while
always being just out of reach, but possible. It's the balance, the
mathematical relationship between the magnificence of the goal, and
the ability to realize it. As with Apollo for instance.

Except the parts of those Apollo landings upon and having walked upon
our physically dark, naked as hell and thus unavoidably anticathode
reactive and otherwise double roasting plus highly electrostatic
charged moon was more than a little bogus.


The opposite extremes must always be competing.

The next thing you realize is the first step to accomplish the ultimate goal
must be to mimic the processes of nature for personal improvement.
To understand the central role that cyclic behavior plays in nature.
The age old idea of improving just a little bit each day really adds
up over time.

Yes it does, as well as per those consistently chipping away at the
truth, whereas day after day of your mainstream status quo keeps doing
as much damage control via those brown-nose clown things, of their
topic/author stalking, bashings and banishment tactics for all it
worth doesn't seem to bother you one bit. So, I guess the next
century will have to be more of the same old mistakes happening over
and over.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”