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Astro Instructor
August 11th 03, 04:33 AM
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AS A PUBLIC SERVICE to newcomers and other interested visitors
to astronomy newsgroups I've put aside my natural contempt for
the "amateurs" and "avoiders" who clutter up these fine groups
with their mouldy tripe, just so that independent readers like
you can learn the truth about how ancient stargazers could see
the progressive motion of the planets in the night sky, and as
a result of watching the night sky over mere decades were able
to easily deduce the following facts about the visible planets:

Fact #1: The planets obviously orbit the Sun.
The further out from the Sun that a
planet is in orbit, then the longer
it takes for the planet to orbit it.

Fact #2: Mercury and Venus are closer to the
Sun in their respective orbits than
Earth is in her orbit about the Sun.

Fact #3: Mercury orbits the Sun a lot faster
than Venus orbits the Sun and Venus
orbits the Sun faster than Earth or-
bits the Sun. This is equally plain
to see for anyone observing the sky
then keeping track by counting days
between repetitive planetary motion
on regular occasion for a few years.

Fact #4: Mars is further from the Sun in its
orbit than Earth is, and Jupiter is
further from the Sun than Mars, and
Saturn is further away than Jupiter,
and all are in orbit around the Sun.

Fact #5: Uranus is barely visible to mans un-
aided eye if you know exactly where
and when to look for it, and seeing
conditions are ideal, as in ancient
times before light pollution & smog,
as in dry, desert-like environments.
By such observations it was obvious
that Uranus is further from the Sun
than Saturn is, with a longer orbit
of some 84 years compared to 29 1/2
years for Saturn's orbit of the Sun.

There's a plethora of obvious conclusions that are
drawn from these self-evident and observable facts,
all of which were drawn by ancient stargazers--and
then some--but the underlying point is made. It is
impossible that ancient astronomers could not have
known that the planets orbit the Sun, nor could've
these same ancient observers not've have known the
Earth is general spherical in shape and not "flat".

That's all. I've written books on the subject, but
I leave it to the reader to read what I've written,
otherwise you're stuck with prevailing unawareness,
and the advantage academia has taken upon yourself.

Very Truly Yours,
Daniel Joseph Min

*Min's Accusations Against Copernicus:


*Min's Planetary Awareness Technique (chapters 1 thru 6):


*Min's Official PGP Public Key on the MIT server:


*Min's Home Page On The World Wide Web:


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J. Scott Miller
August 11th 03, 04:49 AM
Though one might draw the conclusion in hind sight that the planets orbit the
Sun and not the Earth, the reality of the situation, which exists even today, is
that humans have a propensity for assuming the universe revolves around
themselves and not some other body. Ancient literature is full of such tripe,
such that though presented with our current understanding, it is unlikely that
ancient people would see it any other way - astrology is a natural outcome of
such thinking, as is most religious teachings today.

imabrowneye
August 11th 03, 10:44 AM
Astro Instructor > wrote in
:

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>
> Snip out the usual Rubbish
>

Damn!! Mr Min got me again with the different subject title!!!!. I must
read the manual for Xnews, now I'm using it, so I can see if I can plonk
his mumbo jumbo for good.

JB

--
Another community announcment from imabrowneye inc.

Top Professional
August 11th 03, 07:36 PM
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, "Ron Larham" wrote:
>"Top Professional" > wrote in message
...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> AS A PUBLIC SERVICE to newcomers and other interested visitors
>> to astronomy newsgroups I've put aside my natural contempt for
>> the "amateurs" and "avoiders" who clutter up these fine groups
>> with their mouldy tripe, just so that independent readers like
>> you can learn the truth about how ancient stargazers could see
>> the progressive motion of the planets in the night sky, and as
>> a result of watching the night sky over mere decades were able
>> to easily deduce the following facts about the visible planets:
>
>[snip]
>I'm just curious, but how many times have _you_ seen
>mercury?
>
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Actually being so near in orbit around the Sun, Mercury
can be spotted only when near first or third quarter or
about half-lit. Mercury begins to close the distance to
Earth when coming around the far side of the Sun, hence
Mercury's bright limb begins to wane as Mercury's phase
of Virgo begins to wax. Near inferior conjunction, with
Virgo completed, Mercury's bright limb begins to wax as
Mercury's phase of Gemini also begins to wax as Mercury
begins receding from the Earth. Around a fortnight into
this second phase--that of Gemini--Mercury becomes visi-
ble at heliacal rising, against the background of stars:

*stars
/
~
*Sun ~
| /
| *Mercury
| /
| /
-->|------/<--minimum elongation 18 degrees
| / maximum elongation 28 degrees
| /
| /
| /
| /
|/
*Earth

Because Mercury repeats its synodic phase approximately
every 116 solar Earth-days, the background stars appear
to shift behind Mercury by about 115.9 / 365.26 days or
about 114 sidereal degrees...almost four constellations
east of Mercury's previous heliacal rising by long-term
averages. Not only did this prove to prehistoric humans
and other fairly intelligent hominids that Mercury does
in fact orbit the Sun, but also that Mercury is nearest
to the Sun of all the planets, and has a sidereal orbit
averaging 88 days and is steeply inclined by around 7.0
degrees to Earth's ecliptic. Its eccentric orbit 0.2056
is over a fifth difference between major and minor axis,
so Mercury's synodic orbit varies by up to several days.

As a result, Mercury has for millions of years appeared
to Earth-bound observers to average ~85 synodic periods
every 27 tropical years, making ~191 sidereal orbits of
Mercury every 145 synodic periods and 46 tropical years
on average. Of course over such a long time as millions
of sidereal Earth-years, the orbital motions of planets,
and the length of days & years, has dynamically evolved
with the solar system. But the fundamental principle of
astronomical observations and counting the days, months
and years between observations has remained intact, and
proves that prehistoric man knew that the planets orbit
the Sun, and that ancient & antediluvian men have known
that the planets orbit the Sun ever since. This in turn
proves that the much-lauded "Copernican Revolution" was
no more than an exercise in frivolous subterfuge & self-
aggrandizement on the part of ignorant & arrogant fools
who it seems never bothered to look up at the night sky.

Daniel Joseph Min

*Min's Accusations Against Copernicus:


*Min's Planetary Awareness Technique (chapters 1 thru 6):


*Min's Official PGP Public Key on the MIT server:


*Min's Home Page On The World Wide Web:


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Mark
August 12th 03, 04:39 AM
OK,

You seem to think you know it all on Mercury, but the question to you was:
"So, just how many times have YOU seen Mercury?" I may have missed it, but
what is your specific response to that question? I.E., either a number or a
"never" is the correct answer.

Just curious if YOU have taken the time to actually observe visually with a
telescope to see Mercury and not just pontificate about it - you really
can't understand what the forces involved are until you spend time studying,
drawing, charting, photographing, catching transits of the sun, etc. Why
don't you provide us with some REAL scientific observations YOU have done
and prove that you really know it all!

Thanks Mr. Top Professional - I would appreciate a reply!

Starrynights

Top Professional
August 12th 03, 03:23 PM
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LEGIS CANTIO CONTRA INEPTOS CRITICOS
Qvos legent hosce uersvs matvre censvnto,
Profanvm uvlgvs & inscivm ne attrectato
Omnesq: Astronomi, Astrologi, Blennis, Barbari procvl svnto.
Qvi aliter facit, is rite sacer esto.














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DaveB
August 13th 03, 02:42 PM
Your assumption that objects further out move faster is based on work by
Keppler!

Not really ancient.

The ancients never spotted Uranus, or one of the asteroids, or the Jovian
moons. All CAN be seen without telescopes - IF you know where, when and how
to look

They also believed that comets and meteors were atmospheric phenomena, that
the dawn star and the evening star were diferent bodies. Mercury was seen
as the same body, but the varying rising angle made the path look irregular.
Try plotting it without using a sine table to prove it is an orbit some
time.

Your post should be in a psychology newsgroup - all you prove is that
hindsight does not need glasses!

Dave Burton


"Astro Instructor" > wrote in message
...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> AS A PUBLIC SERVICE to newcomers and other interested visitors
> to astronomy newsgroups I've put aside my natural contempt for
> the "amateurs" and "avoiders" who clutter up these fine groups
> with their mouldy tripe, just so that independent readers like
> you can learn the truth about how ancient stargazers could see
> the progressive motion of the planets in the night sky, and as
> a result of watching the night sky over mere decades were able
> to easily deduce the following facts about the visible planets:
>
> Fact #1: The planets obviously orbit the Sun.
> The further out from the Sun that a
> planet is in orbit, then the longer
> it takes for the planet to orbit it.
>
> Fact #2: Mercury and Venus are closer to the
> Sun in their respective orbits than
> Earth is in her orbit about the Sun.
>
> Fact #3: Mercury orbits the Sun a lot faster
> than Venus orbits the Sun and Venus
> orbits the Sun faster than Earth or-
> bits the Sun. This is equally plain
> to see for anyone observing the sky
> then keeping track by counting days
> between repetitive planetary motion
> on regular occasion for a few years.
>
> Fact #4: Mars is further from the Sun in its
> orbit than Earth is, and Jupiter is
> further from the Sun than Mars, and
> Saturn is further away than Jupiter,
> and all are in orbit around the Sun.
>
> Fact #5: Uranus is barely visible to mans un-
> aided eye if you know exactly where
> and when to look for it, and seeing
> conditions are ideal, as in ancient
> times before light pollution & smog,
> as in dry, desert-like environments.
> By such observations it was obvious
> that Uranus is further from the Sun
> than Saturn is, with a longer orbit
> of some 84 years compared to 29 1/2
> years for Saturn's orbit of the Sun.
>
> There's a plethora of obvious conclusions that are
> drawn from these self-evident and observable facts,
> all of which were drawn by ancient stargazers--and
> then some--but the underlying point is made. It is
> impossible that ancient astronomers could not have
> known that the planets orbit the Sun, nor could've
> these same ancient observers not've have known the
> Earth is general spherical in shape and not "flat".
>
> That's all. I've written books on the subject, but
> I leave it to the reader to read what I've written,
> otherwise you're stuck with prevailing unawareness,
> and the advantage academia has taken upon yourself.
>
> Very Truly Yours,
> Daniel Joseph Min
>
> *Min's Accusations Against Copernicus:
>
http://groups.google.com/[email protected]
..org
>
> *Min's Planetary Awareness Technique (chapters 1 thru 6):
>
http://groups.google.com/[email protected]
..org
>
> *Min's Official PGP Public Key on the MIT server:
>
http://groups.google.com/[email protected]
org
>
> *Min's Home Page On The World Wide Web:
>
http://groups.google.com/[email protected]
..org
>
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> iQA/AwUBPzheHZljD7YrHM/nEQJkCgCgwW7ZN1nP3nx+7WqvFK7pv5t8CHsAoIU1
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> =7KRN
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>

Cousin Ricky
August 13th 03, 06:04 PM
imabrowneye > wrote in message >...
> Astro Instructor > wrote in
> :
>
> Damn!! Mr Min got me again with the different subject title!!!!. I must
> read the manual for Xnews, now I'm using it, so I can see if I can plonk
> his mumbo jumbo for good.

Can't happen. Mr. Min morphs too much, too often, in a deliberate
attempt to defeat plonkers. It is like those clueless types who can't
bring themselves to believe that a sign that says "KEEP OUT--THAT
MEANS YOU" afixed to a locked and deadbolted heavy steel door really
means "keep out."

When i used Agent (back when i had an alias for my newsfeed's unknown
IP address), it took about a couple dozen filters to screen *most* of
Min's mouldy tripe. Filters would have to be added every few weeks or
so. Even so, several threads per week would slip through, and these
would have to be killfiled individually (with an expiration period for
the filter). You can learn to MINimize it, but you can never be rid
of it for good.


Clear skies!

--
------------------- Richard Callwood III --------------------
~ U.S. Virgin Islands ~ USDA zone 11 ~ 18.3N, 64.9W ~
~ eastern Massachusetts ~ USDA zone 6 (1992-95) ~
--------------- http://cac.uvi.edu/staff/rc3/ ---------------