I think the Europeans will NEVER make history in space !!!

[Tristan Beeline]

The next astronauts on the moon will be Americans.

The first man on Mars will be, of course, an American.

The first man on Venus will be, of course, an American.

....

The first interstellar travel : American astronauts, of course.

The Europeans will NEVER be important in the history of space and
let's forget the Chinese, too, because they are just
technology-thieves who need something to copy first, because they are
not able to create themselves.

So the future of human space exploration is AMERICAN !

God bless America !

USA USA USA !

[Pat Flannery]

Tristan Beeline wrote:

>The first man on Venus will be, of course, an American.
>
>

COMRADE! "FIRST SPACESHIP ON VENUS"!:
http://doctor-forrester.home.mindspring.com/reviews_s02_ep211.html
COMRADE! "AELITA-QUEEN OF MARS"!:
http://www.umich.edu/~umfandsf/film/films/aelita.html
WHERE ARE WE GOING?
VENUS AND MARS!
WHEN ARE WE GOING?
REAL SOON!

John Googoolag
Yoyodyne Industries
Grover's Mill
New Jersey
USA

[Damon Hill]

(Tristan Beeline) wrote in
om:

Troll alert. Troll al...

Oh, never mind--go for it, Pat!

--Damon, who thinks the French will always be first.

To surrender.

[Andrew Gray]

On 2005-06-13, Tristan Beeline > wrote:
>
> The Europeans will NEVER be important in the history of space and

Lord knows, those farmboys from Smolensk never seemed to come to much...

--
-Andrew Gray

[Jonathan Silverlight]

In message >, Tristan
Beeline > writes
>The next astronauts on the moon will be Americans.
>
>The first man on Mars will be, of course, an American.
>
Like the first artificial satellite, the first pictures from the surface
of the Moon and Venus, the first man into orbit, and the first close-up
of a cometary nucleus, presumably.
And possibly not a man.
--
Remove spam and invalid from address to reply.

[Scott Hedrick]

Europe will remain a footnote in space exploration unless and until the
individual nations either start spending real money (hundreds of megaEuros+)
on national projects or the individual nations *stop* acting like individual
nations and start acting like a single collective nation. Right now, the
European Union is acting very much like the United States was under the
Articles of Confederation, and accomplishing less.

If Europe would act more like the United States of Europe instead of a
mini-UN, it would be a serious competitor to the United States.

[Rand Simberg]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 18:47:36 +0100, in a place far, far away, Jonathan
Silverlight > made the
phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

>In message >, Tristan
>Beeline > writes
>>The next astronauts on the moon will be Americans.
>>
>>The first man on Mars will be, of course, an American.
>>
>Like the first artificial satellite, the first pictures from the surface
>of the Moon and Venus, the first man into orbit, and the first close-up
>of a cometary nucleus, presumably.

Well, it was true for the first man on the moon. Anyway, when you're
number two, you have to try harder...

[Rand Simberg]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:53:53 -0400, in a place far, far away, "Scott
Hedrick" > made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

>If Europe would act more like the United States of Europe instead of a
>mini-UN, it would be a serious competitor to the United States.

And if pigs had wings...

[El Rey de los Chingones]

"Tristan Beeline" > wrote in message
om...

<troll crap flushed>

Learn to speak Chinese, you synapse-free hoser.

[OM]

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 23:45:28 GMT, (Rand
Simberg) wrote:

>And if pigs had wings...

....You'd call for the program to be cancelled regardless of flight
success.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Rand Simberg]

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:17:14 -0500, in a place far, far away, OM
<om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org> made
the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

>On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 23:45:28 GMT, (Rand
>Simberg) wrote:
>
>>And if pigs had wings...
>
>...You'd call for the program to be cancelled regardless of flight
>success.

??

What would I care about a European space program?

[Rusty]

Tristan Beeline wrote:
>I think the Europeans will NEVER make history in space !!!

Probably because they just don't have the right Constitution.

;-)


Rusty

[Heinrich Zinndorf-Linker (zili@home)]

Am Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:19:08 GMT schrieb "Rand Simberg":

>>>The first man on Mars will be, of course, an American.
>>>
>>Like the first artificial satellite, the first pictures from the surface
>>of the Moon and Venus, the first man into orbit, and the first close-up
>>of a cometary nucleus, presumably.
>
>Well, it was true for the first man on the moon. Anyway, when you're
>number two, you have to try harder...

Well, first artifical Earth satellite built by the Ivans, first man in
orbit - an Ivan. And if there hadn't been the Apollo Pad fire, the
chances wouldn't have been too bad, that an Ivan as well would have
been the first man on moon...

And, btw: these successful ivans were all Europeans... <scnr>

cu, ZiLi aka HKZL (Heinrich Zinndorf-Linker)
--
"Abusus non tollit usum" - Latin: Abuse is no argument against proper use.

mailto: http://zili.de

[Herb Schaltegger]

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:07:30 -0500, Heinrich Zinndorf-Linker
(zili@home) wrote
(in article >):

> And if there hadn't been the Apollo Pad fire, the
> chances wouldn't have been too bad, that an Ivan as well would have
> been the first man on moon...

Even presuming that the AS-204 pad accident resulted in an Apollo
spacecraft design which was safer (and thus more likely to avoid a LOCV
mission failure) - which it did - how the hell would the Fire NOT
happening have made the N-1 actually work?

Please, Heinrich, lay off whatever recreational drugs you might have
been taking when you posted. Sheesh. :-/

--
Herb Schaltegger, GPG Key ID: BBF6FC1C
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759
<http://www.individual-i.com/>

[Dodo@aol.com]

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:54:28 -0500, Herb Schaltegger
> wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:07:30 -0500, Heinrich Zinndorf-Linker
>(zili@home) wrote
>(in article >):
>
>> And if there hadn't been the Apollo Pad fire, the
>> chances wouldn't have been too bad, that an Ivan as well would have
>> been the first man on moon...
>
>Even presuming that the AS-204 pad accident resulted in an Apollo
>spacecraft design which was safer (and thus more likely to avoid a LOCV
>mission failure) - which it did - how the hell would the Fire NOT
>happening have made the N-1 actually work?
>
>Please, Heinrich, lay off whatever recreational drugs you might have
>been taking when you posted. Sheesh. :-/
Hey ****wad, what he's inferring is that if the 204 fire didn't
happen, Virgil IVAN Grissom would have been the first man on the moon.
But I'm sure you, the guy with the fancy-ass title signature knew
that. Now apologize to the man like a good little ****wad

[Herb Schaltegger]

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:41:31 -0500, wrote
(in article >):

> Hey ****wad, what he's inferring is that if the 204 fire didn't
> happen, Virgil IVAN Grissom would have been the first man on the moon.
> But I'm sure you, the guy with the fancy-ass title signature knew
> that. Now apologize to the man like a good little ****wad

Hey, ****wad, American's don't generally go running around calling
ourselves by our middle names. For that matter, Grissom didn't even
prefer his first name.

So go to killfile hell like a good little troll now.

<PLONK>

--
Herb Schaltegger, GPG Key ID: BBF6FC1C
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759
<http://www.individual-i.com/>

[Scott Lowther]

Herb Schaltegger wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:41:31 -0500, wrote
>(in article >):
>
>
>
>>Hey ****wad, what he's inferring is that if the 204 fire didn't
>>happen, Virgil IVAN Grissom would have been the first man on the moon.
>>But I'm sure you, the guy with the fancy-ass title signature knew
>>that. Now apologize to the man like a good little ****wad
>>
>>
>
>Hey, ****wad, American's don't generally go running around calling
>ourselves by our middle names. For that matter, Grissom didn't even
>prefer his first name.
>

Much as I hate to take Herbs side...


It's also reasonably obvious that the original reference to "Ivan" was
*not* WRT Grissom:

"Well, first artifical Earth satellite built by the Ivans, first man in
orbit - an Ivan. And if there hadn't been the Apollo Pad fire, the
chances wouldn't have been too bad, that an Ivan as well would have been
the first man on moon...

And, btw: these successful ivans were all Europeans... <scnr>"

[OM]

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:41:31 -0400, wrote:

>Now apologize to the man like a good little ****wad

....Oh, go suck off the Znkfba Genfu.

<PLONK>

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Andrew Gray]

On 2005-06-15, Scott Lowther > wrote:
> Herb Schaltegger wrote:
>
>>>Hey ****wad, what he's inferring is that if the 204 fire didn't
>>>happen, Virgil IVAN Grissom would have been the first man on the moon.
>>>But I'm sure you, the guy with the fancy-ass title signature knew
>>>that. Now apologize to the man like a good little ****wad
>>
>>Hey, ****wad, American's don't generally go running around calling
>>ourselves by our middle names. For that matter, Grissom didn't even
>>prefer his first name.
>
> Much as I hate to take Herbs side...

Much as I hate to not take Herb's side... <g>

> It's also reasonably obvious that the original reference to "Ivan" was
> *not* WRT Grissom:
>
> "Well, first artifical Earth satellite built by the Ivans, first man in
> orbit - an Ivan. And if there hadn't been the Apollo Pad fire, the
> chances wouldn't have been too bad, that an Ivan as well would have been
> the first man on moon...
>
> And, btw: these successful ivans were all Europeans... <scnr>"

Yeah, but the first two Ivans were the successful ones. The third one,
for all his manifold achievements, wasn't successful at being the first
man on the moon...

I confess I missed it too, the first time round, but there you go.

--
-Andrew Gray

[Ed Kyle]

Tristan Beeline wrote:

A troll, but what the heck.

>
> The Europeans will NEVER be important in the history of space

Here are some who already have.

Wernher von Braun
H.H. Koelle (who designed the Saturn rockets)
Kurt Debus (who created and ran Kennedy Space Center)
Hermann Oberth (a father of space age - who
inspired and actually taught von Braun)

No Neil Armstrong on the Moon without them.

A few other Europeans laid the foundations of physics
that led to modern space flight. You might have heard
of:

Galileo Galilei
Johannes Kepler
Isaac Newton
Daniel Bernoulli
Amedeo Avogadro
Michael Faraday
Andre Ampere
Jean-Baptiste Fourier
Jean Foucault
William Thomson (Lord Kelvin)
James Maxwell

and to some extent

Albert Einstein

I've left out a few. ;-)

- Ed Kyle

[Heinrich Zinndorf-Linker (zili@home)]

Am 15 Jun 2005 14:57:13 GMT schrieb "Andrew Gray":

>> It's also reasonably obvious that the original reference to "Ivan" was
>> *not* WRT Grissom:

To Scott: I _HAD_ Gus in mind when I wrote my post. Maybe I should
have built in an obvious hint (like "Navi" or so), for being able to
prove later. But that would be "dumb-assing" the readers.

>> "Well, first artifical Earth satellite built by the Ivans, first man in
>> orbit - an Ivan. And if there hadn't been the Apollo Pad fire, the
>> chances wouldn't have been too bad, that an Ivan as well would have been
>> the first man on moon...
>>
>> And, btw: these successful ivans were all Europeans... <scnr>"
>
>Yeah, but the first two Ivans were the successful ones. The third one,
>for all his manifold achievements, wasn't successful at being the first
>man on the moon...

If the pad fire hadn't happended, Gus' chances would have been _very_
high becoming successful in reaching the goal to be the first
moonwalker.

>I confess I missed it too, the first time round, but there you go.

It is an undeniable fact that Russians Are Europeans (or should I say,
these Russians, who built and manned the successful events). And it is
an undeniable fact, that Gus Grissom's second name (and nowadays well
known to the community) was Ivan. Not more, not less...

Oh. An interesting fact are the reactions of some writers. I'd really
like to say: Beaten dogs bark.

cu, ZiLi aka HKZL (Heinrich Zinndorf-Linker)
--
"Abusus non tollit usum" - Latin: Abuse is no argument against proper use.

mailto: http://zili.de

[Heinrich Zinndorf-Linker (zili@home)]

Am 15 Jun 2005 10:17:35 -0700 schrieb "Ed Kyle":

>> The Europeans will NEVER be important in the history of space
>Here are some who already have.
>[...]
>I've left out a few. ;-)

Yep. Count all important Russian Rocket engineers and scientists (and
all important first-achieving astronauts, too) - all originate from
that part of Russia, that lies west of Ural mountains and so belongs
to Europe...

cu, ZiLi aka HKZL (Heinrich Zinndorf-Linker)
--
"Abusus non tollit usum" - Latin: Abuse is no argument against proper use.

mailto: http://zili.de

[lexcorp@ix.netcom.com]

> Maybe I should have built in an obvious hint

Or perhaps, not written: "And, btw: these successful ivans were all
Europeans..."

[OM]

On 15 Jun 2005 14:12:25 -0700, wrote:

>Or perhaps, not written: "And, btw: these successful ivans were all
>Europeans..."

....Well, just remember, no matter what nationality you are, whenever
you're going to the bathroom, European.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Scott Lowther]

OM wrote:

>On 15 Jun 2005 14:12:25 -0700, wrote:
>
>
>
>>Or perhaps, not written: "And, btw: these successful ivans were all
>>Europeans..."
>>
>>
>
>...Well, just remember, no matter what nationality you are, whenever
>you're going to the bathroom, European.
>

Unless you have prostate trouble, I suppose.

[Rémy MERCIER]

The next astronauts on the moon will be Americans.

The first man on Mars will be, of course, an American.

The first man on Venus will be, of course, an American.

....

The first interstellar travel : American astronauts, of course.

The Europeans will NEVER be important in the history of space and
let's forget the Chinese, too, because they are just
technology-thieves who need something to copy first, because they are
not able to create themselves.

So the future of human space exploration is AMERICAN !

God bless America !

USA USA USA !

You do not understand the world and you do not understand the future.
The future is "us" not "I". The european spirit is “us” and this is the future. The american spirit is “I” and this is the past. Wait and see... But already you can see...

God bless humanity...

[Pat Flannery]

Rémy MERCIER wrote:

>You do not understand the world and you do not understand the future.
>The future is "us" not "I". The european spirit is “us” and this is the
>future. The american spirit is “I” and this is the past. Wait and see...
>But already you can see...
>
>God bless humanity...
>
>
>

With Dubya in charge, "God help humanity" would be a better motto. :-)

Pat

[Scott Hedrick]

"Rémy MERCIER" > wrote in message
...
> The european spirit is "us"

Groupthink good, eh?

and this is the
> future.

Actually, "1984" is already past.

> The american spirit is "I"

and it was good enough to save Europe- twice last century, and you still
keep getting in trouble.

*Europe* couldn't be bothered to fix the problem in Bosnia, until the *US*
shamed them into assisting.

The key to Europe is compromise- and the results of that is that their space
effort is *compromised*.

[OM]

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:15:27 -0400, "Scott Hedrick" >
wrote:

>The key to Europe is compromise- and the results of that is that their space
>effort is *compromised*.

....On the other hand, they do make pretty good dipsy-dumpsters for the
ISS, even if they do try to name them after Mutant Turtles.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Rémy MERCIER]

"Rémy MERCIER" wrote in message
...
The european spirit is "us"

Groupthink good, eh?

and this is the
future.

Actually, "1984" is already past.

The american spirit is "I"

and it was good enough to save Europe- twice last century, and you still
keep getting in trouble.

*Europe* couldn't be bothered to fix the problem in Bosnia, until the *US*
shamed them into assisting.

The key to Europe is compromise- and the results of that is that their space
effort is *compromised*.


Thanks! You illustrate my thought... Whatever was the past (39-45 or Bosnia etc.) look at the future. This is only with the spirit “us” that the world will be “one”. Then make your choice: 1-USA alone forever (think: the entire world will be “one” without USA) or 2-before 50 years NASA decide to be an ESA’s member (think about the power of the principle “us” and the weakness of the principle “I”) or 3- your hope is the war for the world (because in this case you could think for a long time: I am the stronger I am the most beautiful I am so clever etc. etc.).
Then what do you prefer? Tell me!
Rémy

[Scott Hedrick]

"Rémy MERCIER" > wrote in message
...
>Then make your choice: 1-USA alone forever
> (think: the entire world will be "one" without USA)

THen it will run into some problem that it will discuss to death until its
own death is imminent, then come running to the US to save it *yet again*.

or 2-before 50
> years NASA decide to be an ESA's member (think about the power of the
> principle "us" and the weakness of the principle "I")

Right after Europe comes to its senses and decides to become a part of the
United States.

or 3- your hope
> is the war for the world

The world seems to get into plenty of wars on its own- then calls the US to
bail it out.

(because in this case you could think for a
> long time: I am the stronger I am the most beautiful I am so clever
> etc. etc.).

That's part of Europe's problem- style over substance. If it looks good,
everyone can believe it *is* good, regardless of the facts.

[Rémy MERCIER]

"Rémy MERCIER" wrote in message
...
Then make your choice: 1-USA alone forever
(think: the entire world will be "one" without USA)

THen it will run into some problem that it will discuss to death until its
own death is imminent, then come running to the US to save it *yet again*.

or 2-before 50
years NASA decide to be an ESA's member (think about the power of the
principle "us" and the weakness of the principle "I")

Right after Europe comes to its senses and decides to become a part of the
United States.

or 3- your hope
is the war for the world

The world seems to get into plenty of wars on its own- then calls the US to
bail it out.

(because in this case you could think for a
long time: I am the stronger I am the most beautiful I am so clever
etc. etc.).

That's part of Europe's problem- style over substance. If it looks good,
everyone can believe it *is* good, regardless of the facts.


Incredible!
Your choice is: "1"…
Why?
Each nation needs freedom! (and without asking authorization…). Not only America...
You know the difference between: A: an authoritative leadership or B: a free co-operation?
You know the difference between "together" and "me at first"? (or the difference between "us" and "I")
Freedom? Only mine...
Do you really believe that the world wants or needs the leadership of one "I"?
The European spirit : "us", together, true freedom. This is the future if we realy want a world in peace.
A good model for the World?
The Future: WSA (the World Space Agency)… but only with the european spirit.
Incredible!
Rémy

[Scott Hedrick]

"Rémy MERCIER" > wrote in message
...
> Your choice is: "1".
> Why?

YOu tell me- *you* are the one picking numbers.

> You know the difference between: A: an authoritative leadership or B: a
> free co-operation?

Yes- *leadership* is needed once the "free co-operation" has succeeded in
getting its tit in the ringer *yet again*.

> You know the difference between "together" and "me at first"? (or the
> difference between "us" and "I")

Yes- *I* am called in when "us" is in trouble, since "us" does nothing more
than *talk* while people are dying.

> The European spirit : "us", together, true freedom. This is the future
> if we realy want a world in peace.
> A good model for the World?

Ask the Bosnians what they thought of European leadership only a few years
ago.

> The Future: WSA (the World Space Agency). but only with the european
> spirit.

The spirit of doing a poor job, leaving the United States to once again take
a leadership position.

Less talk, more do.

[Pat Flannery]

Rémy MERCIER wrote:

>The Future: WSA (the World Space Agency)… but only with the european
>spirit.
>Incredible!
>
>

If this means we get all the Italian blonde and redheaded babes in the
really tight chrome spacesuits and rocketships with lots of fins on them
like in the movies- then I am completely in favor of this concept!

Pat

[Matthew Rudzicz]

Remy,

Sorry about the lack of accents, but we have a saying:

Don't feed the troll

Roughly:

Il ne faut pas mordre a l'hamecon.

Matt

[OM]

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:34:56 +0000, Matthew Rudzicz
> wrote:

>Il ne faut pas mordre a l'hamecon.

....Damn Frogs. If you can't learn to bathe once a week, at least learn
to speak a *real* language like English. Or at worst, Canadian.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Rémy MERCIER]

"Rémy MERCIER" wrote in message
...
Your choice is: "1".
Why?

YOu tell me- *you* are the one picking numbers.

You know the difference between: A: an authoritative leadership or B: a
free co-operation?

Yes- *leadership* is needed once the "free co-operation" has succeeded in
getting its tit in the ringer *yet again*.

You know the difference between "together" and "me at first"? (or the
difference between "us" and "I")

Yes- *I* am called in when "us" is in trouble, since "us" does nothing more
than *talk* while people are dying.

The European spirit : "us", together, true freedom. This is the future
if we realy want a world in peace.
A good model for the World?

Ask the Bosnians what they thought of European leadership only a few years
ago.

The Futu WSA (the World Space Agency). but only with the european
spirit.

The spirit of doing a poor job, leaving the United States to once again take
a leadership position.

Less talk, more do.


I speak calmly about the future not about the past.
You speak about the past not about the future.
When I travel in the world I am proud to be french and european.
Europe is a model for the world: "together in peace and without leadership".
Why the people in the world don't love a lot americans? (less do... more talk)
Your leadership is very important but only for yourselves.
Listen! The world itself is speaking: "America is not a model for me"
And the "hameçon" (hook) was not for me...
But the idea "WSA" is a good idea (with the european spirit of course).
I am going to militate and act for a Worl Space Agency (in Bruxelles).
Rémy

[Scott Hedrick]

"Rémy MERCIER" > wrote in message
...
> I speak calmly about the future not about the past.
> You speak about the past not about the future.

Those who fail to learn from history will repeat it- as Europe did, with two
world wars.

> When I travel in the world I am proud to be french and european.

We have folks here who are proud of their ignorance as well.

> Europe is a model for the world: "together in peace and without
> leadership".

Just ask the Bosnians.

> Why the people in the world don't love a lot americans?

Because, when we do what's right and *act* to help other people, instead of
talking about it, they become ashamed with themselves for failing to act.
It's like a bunch of people hanging around a lavatory faucet that's running,
complaining about the water being wasted, but waiting for the Americans to
arrive to actually turn off the faucet.

> Your leadership is very important but only for yourselves.

If that were true, the world would stop asking the United States to bail it
out. France was *not* the first place looked to for help with the recent
tsunami.

> Listen! The world itself is speaking: "America is not a model for me"

Of course not- because talk is always easier than actually doing something.

> But the idea "WSA" is a good idea (with the european spirit of course).

WHen the ESA *actually does something*, we'll see.

> I am going to militate and act for a Worl Space Agency (in Bruxelles).

The center for arms dealers of the world.

[Jeff Findley]

"OM" <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org> wrote
in message ...
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:34:56 +0000, Matthew Rudzicz
> > wrote:
>
> >Il ne faut pas mordre a l'hamecon.
>
> ...Damn Frogs. If you can't learn to bathe once a week, at least learn
> to speak a *real* language like English. Or at worst, Canadian.

Someone must have slept through his diversity training. ;-)

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

[Rémy MERCIER]

I speak calmly about the future not about the past.
You speak about the past not about the future.
When I travel in the world I am proud to be french and european.
Europe is a model for the world: "together in peace and without leadership".
Why the people in the world don't love a lot americans? (less do... more talk)
Your leadership is very important but only for yourselves.
Listen! The world itself is speaking: "America is not a model for me"
And the "hameçon" (hook) was not for me...
But the idea "WSA" is a good idea (with the european spirit of course).
I am going to militate and act for a Worl Space Agency (in Bruxelles).
Rémy

hi

""""""When asked about scenarios that could prompt the Europeans to look for partners elsewhere, he replies: "I really don't see any real meaning to doing that. I'm a strong believer in space exploration as a step beyond the 'the race.' To me the first woman or man on Mars would be perceived as just that. It wouldn't be a European, an American, or an Indian."."""""""

"""""""
'UN' for space exploration
The International Academy of Astronautics is finishing a report outlining a range of approaches for cooperation on future space-exploration activities, says James Zimmerman, who for 12 years served as NASA's representative in Europe and currently heads a space-policy consulting firm in McLean, Va.

One possibility would be to establish an international body outside the United Nations framework, but modeled after ESA, that would coordinate an international moon-Mars effort, says Kevin Madders, a space policy consultant in Brussels."""""
From the link: http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0401/p14s02-stss.html?s=widep

good idea?
Rémy

[Scott Dorsey]

So, you're telling me that Yuri Gagarin wasn't European?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Pat Flannery]

Rémy MERCIER wrote:

>One possibility would be to establish an international body outside the
>United Nations framework, but modeled after ESA, that would coordinate
>an international moon-Mars effort, says Kevin Madders, a space policy
>consultant in Brussels."""""
>From the link:
>http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0401/p14s02-stss.html?s=widep
>
>good idea?
>
>
>
Maybe Europe could do it, but the past history of international space
programs where it wasn't one country in the lead and other countries
supplying accessory parts hasn't been outstanding, going clean back to
the Europa rocket program.
After the ISS debacle with the Russians, I think the United States is
going to be very hesitant to get involved in any sort of a program as
complex as a manned Mars flight unless it is pretty much in charge of
it, and I can see Russia having the same approach.
Beyond the political complexities of a program like that, there are also
a plethora of other problems that it would entail- including different
electrical standards for equipment, the language barrier, how much each
country was to contribute financially, and different engineering
approaches and techniques.
Doing it with two countries involved would be difficult, but probably
possible- trying it with ten or more as pretty much equal partners would
be a complete mess bordering on the impossible.
The amount of time, effort, and cost that it would take to make it work
might well mean that one of the major space-capable nations (US, Russia,
France, China, and possibly Japan) might well be able to do the project
faster and at lower cost if they were to do it on their own rather than
as part of an international program.

Pat

[Rémy MERCIER]

"Rémy MERCIER" wrote in message
...
I speak calmly about the future not about the past.
You speak about the past not about the future.

Those who fail to learn from history will repeat it- as Europe did, with two
world wars.

When I travel in the world I am proud to be french and european.

We have folks here who are proud of their ignorance as well.

Europe is a model for the world: "together in peace and without
leadership".

Just ask the Bosnians.

Why the people in the world don't love a lot americans?

Because, when we do what's right and *act* to help other people, instead of
talking about it, they become ashamed with themselves for failing to act.
It's like a bunch of people hanging around a lavatory faucet that's running,
complaining about the water being wasted, but waiting for the Americans to
arrive to actually turn off the faucet.

Your leadership is very important but only for yourselves.

If that were true, the world would stop asking the United States to bail it
out. France was *not* the first place looked to for help with the recent
tsunami.

Listen! The world itself is speaking: "America is not a model for me"

Of course not- because talk is always easier than actually doing something.

But the idea "WSA" is a good idea (with the european spirit of course).

WHen the ESA *actually does something*, we'll see.

I am going to militate and act for a Worl Space Agency (in Bruxelles).

The center for arms dealers of the world.

hi,
Your answer is a little agressive? Sorry! I am so sorry if I shocked you a little, really.
Think that I am your french doggie! Think that I am a bad bow-wow!
You see... now your are happy...
May I go to Brussels tomorow and speak about a World Space Agency?
I will speak about our mistakes (the past) and I will speak about the future.
Thank you for giving me your authorization.
Your devoted
Rémy

[Rémy MERCIER]

Rémy MERCIER wrote:

One possibility would be to establish an international body outside the
United Nations framework, but modeled after ESA, that would coordinate
an international moon-Mars effort, says Kevin Madders, a space policy
consultant in Brussels."""""
From the link:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0401/p14s02-stss.html?s=widep

good idea?



Maybe Europe could do it, but the past history of international space
programs where it wasn't one country in the lead and other countries
supplying accessory parts hasn't been outstanding, going clean back to
the Europa rocket program.
After the ISS debacle with the Russians, I think the United States is
going to be very hesitant to get involved in any sort of a program as
complex as a manned Mars flight unless it is pretty much in charge of
it, and I can see Russia having the same approach.
Beyond the political complexities of a program like that, there are also
a plethora of other problems that it would entail- including different
electrical standards for equipment, the language barrier, how much each
country was to contribute financially, and different engineering
approaches and techniques.
Doing it with two countries involved would be difficult, but probably
possible- trying it with ten or more as pretty much equal partners would
be a complete mess bordering on the impossible.
The amount of time, effort, and cost that it would take to make it work
might well mean that one of the major space-capable nations (US, Russia,
France, China, and possibly Japan) might well be able to do the project
faster and at lower cost if they were to do it on their own rather than
as part of an international program.

Pat

hi
ESA has a long experience with these difficulties and now found answers so well that EU takes inspiration from ESA. The language would be the english. There is also a lot off examples with successful partnership and many international space (or other) projects (between EU and USA, Russia, Japan and also between USA and etc.). The “raison d’être” of all these difficulties is to be solved (I am an idealist: mankind is one and this is the reason why I love also americans. Leadership is sometines a good thing but in this case prestige is a bad motivation. The world will never be one around my navel...). The participation could be balanced between USA and EU or between EU+Russia+China+Canada and USA+Japan.
Rémy

[Pat Flannery]

Rémy MERCIER wrote:

>
>hi
>ESA has a long experience with these difficulties and now found answers
>so well that EU takes inspiration from ESA. The language would be the
>english. There is also a lot off examples with successful partnership
>and many international space (or other) projects (between EU and USA,
>Russia, Japan and also between USA and etc.). The “raison d’être” of
>all these difficulties is to be solved (I am an idealist: mankind is
>one and this is the reason why I love also americans. Leadership is
>sometines a good thing but in this case prestige is a bad motivation.
>The world will never be one around my navel...). The participation
>could be balanced between USA and EU or between EU+Russia+China+Canada
>and USA+Japan.
>

I don't think there is much of a chance of the U.S. getting involved in
a project like this after the ISS debacle. Also, relations are presently
strained between the U.S. and the rest of the world over Iraq, and I
don't think they are probably go back to the good old days of post World
War II anytime soon- due to competition over the world's oil supply, and
the desire of each nation to assure their stake in a limited resource
while its consumption continues to grow worldwide.

Pat