In Pappy's Own Words

[John Maxson]

Jon Berndt > wrote in message
...
>
> I managed to track down Mr. Papadakis,

Big deal. The last I heard, he'd moved from Houston to Austin.

> His answers shed a LOT of *light* on Mr. Maxson's claim,
> and tells us "the rest of the story".

It tells you very little, other than Myron's revised but jaundiced
opinion. (Is he off the Scotch yet?)

> "Only when the 154 film from theodolites are studied do you
> get clear enough pictures to see the lower rocket really does
> have the stripe."

"The 154 film?" What planet is he on?

Clearly, camera E202 shows that it has a frustum separation ring.
Copying film doesn't change proportion to *that* extent!

> "The upper rockets black line is shown in this film to actually
> be caused by the frustrum that is displaced and causing a dark
> shadow where a stripe would be."

Sure, and I know where there is some good ocean-front property
in Clear Lake, Iowa.

There is no way in the world anyone is going to convince me that
a displaced frustum and a sun shadow cause the black ID band
visible in more than 30 frames of rotating left booster seen here:

www.mission51l.com/apreview.htm

> The fact that John Maxson's FOIA copies are poorly printed
> (overexposed) explains a lot.

It shows you exactly how devious and deceitful NASA is (not to
mention that Jon Berndt is the same way).

> But, this shows that his use of the words of others is at least
> sometimes twisted and incomplete, in order to paint the picture
> he wants to paint.

You are a liar, Berndt. You don't know one percent of the story.
On January 5, 1989, some time before traveling to KSC for his
oft-delayed screening (from the Reagan administration into the
Bush administration), Pappy called me to say:

"I don't trust NASA to show us the originals. They've had
a *year* to 'prepare' a film. Now they're claiming they're
having 'flickering' problems."

Papadakis betrayed me. I was told on good authority that it would
make my case even stronger, and it has. Howard Acosta told me
no light table was used, and that the film was run through very fast
(no time for "studying").

They were looking for dozens of things, not just the ID band. In
all cases, Charlie Stevenson gave them an excuse or interpretation
to twist what the Commission reported 180 degrees out of phase.

> CASE CLOSED

Sorry, BBR, it doesn't work that way. You're not Judge Roy Bean;
you simply have delusions that you are.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

[Jon Berndt]

"John Maxson" > wrote in message

> Jon Berndt > wrote in message

> It tells you very little, other than Myron's revised but jaundiced
> opinion. (Is he off the Scotch yet?)

You are so predictable. So deluded. So tragic.

> Sure, and I know where there is some good ocean-front property
> in Clear Lake, Iowa.

Trying to dump it on someone else, eh?

> There is no way in the world anyone is going to convince me that
> a displaced frustum and a sun shadow cause the black ID band
> visible in more than 30 frames of rotating left booster seen here:

We know. You're hopeless, you're not an engineer, you can't do basic
engineering calculations. You've got a history of misusing quotes, twisting
them, and holding back information, as we have just seen.

> www.mission51l.com/apreview.htm
>
> > The fact that John Maxson's FOIA copies are poorly printed
> > (overexposed) explains a lot.
>
> It shows you exactly how devious and deceitful NASA is (not to
> mention that Jon Berndt is the same way).

You just can't handle that you made a big mistake. How typical of you! "Only
*my* evidence is any good!" he says. "Just a flesh wound", he says!

> Papadakis betrayed me. I was told on good authority that it would
> make my case even stronger, and it has. Howard Acosta told me
> no light table was used, and that the film was run through very fast
> (no time for "studying").

Hmmm. I wonder what Mr. Acosta would have to say:



> > CASE CLOSED
>
> Sorry, BBR, it doesn't work that way. You're not Judge Roy Bean;
> you simply have delusions that you are.

You always resort to name-calling when you've lost. You're no engineer, Mr.
J. Maxson.

CASE CLOSED.

Jon

[Roger Balettie]

"Jon Berndt" > wrote:
> CASE CLOSED

Outstanding work, Jon. This should be considered required reading for any
new sci.space.* visitors.

Please add to your web review at: http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html

My web review of "Betrayal" can be found at:
http://home.austin.rr.com/sts51lvideo/

Roger
--
Roger Balettie
former Flight Dynamics Officer
Space Shuttle Mission Control
http://www.balettie.com/

[Terrence Daniels]

"Nicholas Fitzpatrick" > wrote in message
...
> I guess if after, then this John Maxson fellow must be quite the con
artist.

No. He's a sadly untreated paranoiac who's apparently been isolated and
abandoned somewhere in Iowa for over a decade, where he's sat stewing in his
own conspiratorial juices. I wouldn't wish his mental state on anybody, and
I hope I don't end up like him.

See here:

http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html

And there's one other address for a similar page which I've forgotten, but
it should be linked from the above.

[Jon Berndt]

"Nicholas Fitzpatrick" > wrote in message

> In your post, can you clarify one thing. When did they actually get
> to view original film? It isn't clear from the post, if that was
> before or after July 11, 1988.
>
> I guess if after, then this John Maxson fellow must be quite the con
artist.
>
> Nick

AFTER! And yes, you are correct.

Pappy viewed John Maxson's poor quality FOIA copy and thought perhaps Mr.
Maxson had something.

After viewing the original NASA film at the Cape, Pappy and the other
individual[s] there viewing the film smiled and nodded in agreement that the
SRBs had NOT crossed. Given Mr. Maxson's hints, I suspect that person must
be Howard Acosta. If true, I wonder what Mr. Acosta *really* thinks.

Jon

[Terrence Daniels]

"Jon Berndt" > wrote in message
...
>snipped some interesting investigative journalism

Elvis has left the building.

Thanks John...

In other news, the S.S.* weather service predicts a 100% chance of passing
napalm showers, moving in from the Midwest.

[John Maxson]

Jon Berndt > wrote in message
...
> "John Maxson" > wrote in message
> > Jon Berndt > wrote in message
>
> > It tells you very little, other than Myron's revised but jaundiced
> > opinion. (Is he off the Scotch yet?)
>
> You are so predictable. So deluded. So tragic.

No, I'm just extremely well documented but very poor from
Lockheed's ***kill*** the messenger campaign. I could
quote Papadakis supporting me till the cows come home.
He frankly admitted that Senator Proxmire had **nothing**
to do with helping them get to see the (ha-ha) "original" film.

When push came to shove, Pappy got pushed and told me
to shove it. What can you expect from a guy who wrote the
first "SRB burnthrough" story for the Houston Chronicle?
(I'm dead serious about his over indulgence in Scotch, too.)

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

[Nicholas Fitzpatrick]

In article ink.net>,
Terrence Daniels > wrote:
>
>No. He's a sadly untreated paranoiac who's apparently been isolated and
>abandoned somewhere in Iowa for over a decade, where he's sat stewing in his
>own conspiratorial juices. I wouldn't wish his mental state on anybody, and
>I hope I don't end up like him.
>
>http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html

You know, I've been completely ignoring all this Maxson stuff
all this time, as most of the discussion, once it got going, had
little context in it. But looking at this page, and some others,
including Maxson's, which I have never seen before, I can come to only
one conclusion:

The USA need more mental health facilities. :-)

Seriously though, what on earth would Nasa's motive ever be for
a cover-up like that? It was pretty clear to everyone at the time
that they were after answers. And if the accident cause was different
than expected, then what would be the point of hiding it.

And if I understand all this correctly, Maxson is suggesting that it
was a deliberate act of sabotage by the Reagan administration, to slow
down the civilian space program? I mean, just how nuts can one person
possibly be? Forget everything else, if my recollection of 1986-1989
is correct, Nasa funding got increased because of the accident. The
newspapers were full of reports of the Reagan administration doing
a lot, to put the program back on track.

Sometimes, I wonder if we would be better off moderating these groups, so
as to keep the fruit loops out.

Nick

[John Maxson]

Roger Balettie > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Outstanding work, Jon.

It's a load of Texas steer manure, as always, **Lockheed style**.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

[John Maxson]

Van Gogh, Mosley "steered" you wrong.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



Terrence Daniels > wrote
in message arthlink.net...
> "Jon Berndt" > wrote in message
> ...
> >snipped some interesting investigative journalism
>
> Elvis has left the building.
>
> Thanks John...
>
> In other news, the S.S.* weather service predicts a 100% chance of passing
> napalm showers, moving in from the Midwest.

[John Maxson]

Found your voice again, eh, BeltWay? Convolute the real
evidence and make hay out of the trash, that's Lockheed's
style -- and yours too.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Roger Balettie > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Terrence -- make sure you note that *JON* Berndt wrote the missive for
which
> you're thanking him... *JOHN* Maxson is the individual with the
continuously
> disproven hypotheses. :)

[John Maxson]

Van Gogh, you're so far out of line you make me think
of a junior-sized paper clip trying to paint a barn black.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Terrence Daniels > wrote
in message
arthlink.net...
>
> No. He's a sadly untreated paranoiac who's apparently been isolated and
> abandoned somewhere in Iowa for over a decade, where he's sat stewing in
his
> own conspiratorial juices. I wouldn't wish his mental state on anybody,
and
> I hope I don't end up like him.

[John Maxson]

You know, Nick, it's a shame they let jerks like you run
around loose. You throw stones first, then ask questions.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Nicholas Fitzpatrick > wrote
in message ...
>
> You know, I've been completely ignoring all this Maxson stuff
> all this time, as most of the discussion, once it got going, had
> little context in it. But looking at this page, and some others,
> including Maxson's, which I have never seen before, I can come to only
> one conclusion:
>
> The USA need more mental health facilities. :-)
>
> Seriously though, what on earth would Nasa's motive ever be for
> a cover-up like that? It was pretty clear to everyone at the time
> that they were after answers. And if the accident cause was different
> than expected, then what would be the point of hiding it.
>
> And if I understand all this correctly, Maxson is suggesting that it
> was a deliberate act of sabotage by the Reagan administration, to slow
> down the civilian space program? I mean, just how nuts can one person
> possibly be? Forget everything else, if my recollection of 1986-1989
> is correct, Nasa funding got increased because of the accident. The
> newspapers were full of reports of the Reagan administration doing
> a lot, to put the program back on track.
>
> Sometimes, I wonder if we would be better off moderating these groups, so
> as to keep the fruit loops out.
>
> Nick

[John Maxson]

In late October 1987, AF Col. Ed O'Connor (who directed the
51-L debris recovery) confirmed an in-cloud booster crossing.

===========================================
DANIEL MAXSON: Do the SRBs -- or did they -- cross in
the clouds?
COL. ED O'CONNOR: Ya, the feeling is they did. What
happened is when the aft fixture failed, that SRB rotated out.
So that's why the thrust would force it to *cross* -- after the
*forward* section failed -- cross the path of the other which
was still *attached*!
DANIEL MAXSON: Ya but -- but they were held *together*.
I was told by a NASA expert the SRBs were held together by a
big *ring* of the thrust structure of the external tank. Otherwise
they would have immediately exited the cloud. And that they
went maybe a half-second held together by some kind of an ET
*ring* frame.
COL. ED O'CONNOR: Well, there's *two* things that holds it
together. At the *rear* there's a heavy ring for attachment, and
that's where the *failure* occurred, heating one of those struts
that holds them together and then *ripping* the rest of it out. In
the *top* structure, there's a thrust *beam* that goes through
the intertank area. There's some *ancillary* stuff there. The
forward *held* for a little bit.
DANIEL MAXSON: And it allowed them to cross.
COL. ED O'CONNOR: Ya.
DANIEL MAXSON: Okay.
===========================================

[Given probable cause, a federal judge can order an 'in camera'
inspection of classified (in this case SENSITIVE) film data.]

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Jon Berndt > wrote in message
...
>
> Is that the way they do it in Iowa? Step in "it"; open mouth;
> insert foot?

[John Maxson]

In late October 1987, AF Col. Ed O'Connor (who directed the
51-L debris recovery) confirmed an in-cloud booster crossing.

===========================================
DANIEL MAXSON: Do the SRBs -- or did they -- cross in
the clouds?
COL. ED O'CONNOR: Ya, the feeling is they did. What
happened is when the aft fixture failed, that SRB rotated out.
So that's why the thrust would force it to *cross* -- after the
*forward* section failed -- cross the path of the other which
was still *attached*!
DANIEL MAXSON: Ya but -- but they were held *together*.
I was told by a NASA expert the SRBs were held together by a
big *ring* of the thrust structure of the external tank. Otherwise
they would have immediately exited the cloud. And that they
went maybe a half-second held together by some kind of an ET
*ring* frame.
COL. ED O'CONNOR: Well, there's *two* things that holds it
together. At the *rear* there's a heavy ring for attachment, and
that's where the *failure* occurred, heating one of those struts
that holds them together and then *ripping* the rest of it out. In
the *top* structure, there's a thrust *beam* that goes through
the intertank area. There's some *ancillary* stuff there. The
forward *held* for a little bit.
DANIEL MAXSON: And it allowed them to cross.
COL. ED O'CONNOR: Ya.
DANIEL MAXSON: Okay.
===========================================

[Given probable cause, a federal judge can order an 'in camera'
inspection of classified (in this case SENSITIVE) film data.]

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Jorge R. Frank > wrote in message
...
>
> It's the sound of a John Thomas being swatted across the snout
> with the rolled-up newspaper of Truth.

[Terrence Daniels]

"Roger Balettie" > wrote in message
. ..
> Terrence -- make sure you note that *JON* Berndt wrote the missive for
which
> you're thanking him... *JOHN* Maxson is the individual with the
continuously
> disproven hypotheses. :)

Oh, shizzat. Thanks for catching me.

> Oh... and my web review to which you were referring earlier is at
> http://home.austin.rr.com/sts51lvideo/, which goes along with Jon's at
> http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html

That's the one.

I think if we have a FAQ somewhere, those two obviously should be in there,
plus direct links to Google groups searches of posts made by some well-known
agitators.

[John Maxson]

You have a few loose wires in need of repair, Van Gogh,
so be sure to include all your abusive posts for the 'docs.'

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Terrence Daniels > wrote
in message
arthlink.net...
>
> > Oh... and my web review to which you were referring earlier is at
> > http://home.austin.rr.com/sts51lvideo/, which goes along with Jon's at
> > http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html
>
> That's the one.
>
> I think if we have a FAQ somewhere, those two obviously should
> be in there, plus direct links to Google groups searches of posts
> made by some well-known agitators.

[Charleston]

"John Maxson" > wrote in message
...

> In late October 1987, AF Col. Ed O'Connor (who directed the
> 51-L debris recovery) confirmed an in-cloud booster crossing.

I am just wondering if Colonel O Connor ever saw the original film.

<snip pickled red herring>

> [Given probable cause, a federal judge can order an 'in camera'
> inspection of classified (in this case SENSITIVE) film data.]

And if some federal judge did see the film and told you that you were wrong,
that judge would join the ever growing list of conspiritors right?

> --
> John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

[Nicholas Fitzpatrick]

In article >,
John Maxson > wrote:
>You know, Nick, it's a shame they let jerks like you run
>around loose. You throw stones first, then ask questions.

Okay then, answer the questions then. I'll stop being judgemental.

BTW, I would prefer if you didn't top-post. And could you trim the quotes
a bit more? And why so much cross-posting? You know, if you went
to news.announce.newusers, and read some of the background information
on Usenet etiquette there, perhaps you would get along with everyone
here better.

Thanks, Nick

[John Maxson]

Van Gogh, you need to get some good mental help before
you're qualified to moderate anything but the used O-rings
in Mosley's outhouse.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



Terrence Daniels > wrote
in message arthlink.net...
> "Nicholas Fitzpatrick" > wrote in message
> ...
> > snipped questions
>
> I asked all those questions myself earlier in the year. :) Search Google
> groups with his name as a parameter and read the earlier threads, as well
as
> those of his kids, and Scott Grissom to boot. That'll get you up-to-date
on
> the froot loopiness. Somewhere in there your question re: why he didn't
get
> mental help will be answered also.
>
> > Sometimes, I wonder if we would be better off moderating these groups,
so
> > as to keep the fruit loops out.
>
> Yes.

[Nicholas Fitzpatrick]

In article ink.net>,
Terrence Daniels > wrote:
>"Nicholas Fitzpatrick" > wrote in message
...
>
>I asked all those questions myself earlier in the year. :) Search Google
>groups with his name as a parameter and read the earlier threads, as well as
>those of his kids, and Scott Grissom to boot. That'll get you up-to-date on
>the froot loopiness. Somewhere in there your question re: why he didn't get
>mental help will be answered also.

We need a FAQ for all this ... I'll just stick to this thread for a bit,
and stick to my promise above not to prejudge him. Perhaps I am leaping
to conclusions ...

Nick

[John Maxson]

In late October 1987, AF Col. Ed O'Connor (who directed the
51-L debris recovery) confirmed an in-cloud booster crossing.

===========================================
DANIEL MAXSON: Do the SRBs -- or did they -- cross in
the clouds?
COL. ED O'CONNOR: Ya, the feeling is they did. What
happened is when the aft fixture failed, that SRB rotated out.
So that's why the thrust would force it to *cross* -- after the
*forward* section failed -- cross the path of the other which
was still *attached*!
DANIEL MAXSON: Ya but -- but they were held *together*.
I was told by a NASA expert the SRBs were held together by a
big *ring* of the thrust structure of the external tank. Otherwise
they would have immediately exited the cloud. And that they
went maybe a half-second held together by some kind of an ET
*ring* frame.
COL. ED O'CONNOR: Well, there's *two* things that holds it
together. At the *rear* there's a heavy ring for attachment, and
that's where the *failure* occurred, heating one of those struts
that holds them together and then *ripping* the rest of it out. In
the *top* structure, there's a thrust *beam* that goes through
the intertank area. There's some *ancillary* stuff there. The
forward *held* for a little bit.
DANIEL MAXSON: And it allowed them to cross.
COL. ED O'CONNOR: Ya.
DANIEL MAXSON: Okay.
===========================================

[Given probable cause, a federal judge can order an 'in camera'
inspection of classified (in this case SENSITIVE) film data.]

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Charleston > wrote
in message news:xA1Ua.38902$zy.2388@fed1read06...
<snipped the snot>

[John Maxson]

You're wasting your time.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Nicholas Fitzpatrick > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> John Maxson > wrote:
> >You know, Nick, it's a shame they let jerks like you run
> >around loose. You throw stones first, then ask questions.
>
> Okay then, answer the questions then. I'll stop being judgemental.

But you didn't.

> BTW, I would prefer if you didn't top-post. And could you trim the quotes
> a bit more? And why so much cross-posting? You know, if you went
> to news.announce.newusers, and read some of the background information
> on Usenet etiquette there, perhaps you would get along with everyone
> here better.
>
> Thanks, Nick

[John Maxson]

You're still out of line.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



Nicholas Fitzpatrick > wrote in message
...
> In article ink.net>,
> Terrence Daniels > wrote:
> >"Nicholas Fitzpatrick" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >I asked all those questions myself earlier in the year. :) Search Google
> >groups with his name as a parameter and read the earlier threads, as well
as
> >those of his kids, and Scott Grissom to boot. That'll get you up-to-date
on
> >the froot loopiness. Somewhere in there your question re: why he didn't
get
> >mental help will be answered also.
>
> We need a FAQ for all this ...

> I'll just stick to this thread for a bit,
> and stick to my promise above not to prejudge him.

But you just did -- again.

> Perhaps I am leaping to conclusions ...
>
> Nick

No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

[Nicholas Fitzpatrick]

In article >,
John Maxson > wrote:
>You're wasting your time.

???

I'm confused. I said I wouldn't prejudge you. I just wanted you
to answer my questions, which I think are pretty simple (and to
be expected). And I'm trying to be helpful.

And you are telling me I am wasting my time? So I should go back to
just not believing you then?

Nick

[Terrence Daniels]

"Nicholas Fitzpatrick" > wrote in message
...
> We need a FAQ for all this ... I'll just stick to this thread for a bit,
> and stick to my promise above not to prejudge him. Perhaps I am leaping
> to conclusions ...

No, you're not.

He can be nice and even helpful, like anybody, but unfortunately he chooses
not to be. I poked a little sideways fun at him and I ended up as being part
of a "conspiracy" (search for MY thread on this if you're bored and need
some extra drama in your life). Not directly named as such, mind you, but my
old 'nick was included as part of some **** List of his. All this is "Old
Hat" really, search around (I guess you're new here?). :) Anyhow some
posters consider it a badge of honor to be on his List.

If you find yourself listed as an enemy with him (I think you already are,
that didn't take long!), his kids, or Gus Grissom's mysognistic crank of a
son, you're in good company.

[John Maxson]

Get some practical experience investigating space shuttle
disasters, Van Dorn. You're all blue sky and babble.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



Doug... > wrote in message
...
> OK, sorry. I apologize.
>
> To all the 6-year-olds out there.
>
> John, no one here believes you. No one here respects you. No one here
> thinks anything but ill of you. Why the bloody hell do you keep pushing
> at them?
>
> The definition of a psychosis is continuing to act the same way that has
> failed to work over and over again, thinking that the results will change
> the next time.
>
> By this definition, you're psychotic. In other words, insane.
>
> Give it up. It's over. It's been over for 17 years. You're wrong.
> You've been proven wrong over and over, and each time you are, you simply
> resort to name-calling and then start up again on the same behavior.
>
> Psychotic.
>
> Go away.
>
> --
>
> It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
> it's the sudden stop at the end... |

[John Maxson]

It's too late, Nick. You blew it. Start by stating your
credentials for judging my Challenger sacrifice.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Nicholas Fitzpatrick > wrote
in message ...
> In article >,
> John Maxson > wrote:
>
> >You're wasting your time.
>
> ???
>
> I'm confused.

Where's your defamatory FAQ?

[John Maxson]

Feel better now, Van Gogh? Like the man you'll never be?

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Terrence Daniels > wrote
in message arthlink.net...
> "Nicholas Fitzpatrick" > wrote in message
> ...
> > We need a FAQ for all this ... I'll just stick to this thread for a
bit,
> > and stick to my promise above not to prejudge him. Perhaps I am leaping
> > to conclusions ...
>
> No, you're not.
>
> He can be nice and even helpful, like anybody, but unfortunately he
chooses
> not to be. I poked a little sideways fun at him and I ended up as being
part
> of a "conspiracy" (search for MY thread on this if you're bored and need
> some extra drama in your life). Not directly named as such, mind you, but
my
> old 'nick was included as part of some **** List of his. All this is "Old
> Hat" really, search around (I guess you're new here?). :) Anyhow some
> posters consider it a badge of honor to be on his List.
>
> If you find yourself listed as an enemy with him (I think you already are,
> that didn't take long!), his kids, or Gus Grissom's mysognistic crank of a
> son, you're in good company.

[Terrence Daniels]

"Nicholas Fitzpatrick" > wrote in message
...
> Not terribly new, but I was unsubscribed for a few years, only returning
> in late 2002. I think I missed much of this before, and most of it
> since Feb 1, has really had little contect, so I just ignore it.

I see. I flat-out abandoned this place for most of late February and March
because the kook & troll count went through the roof.

> ... Grissom is another issue I don't get. The posts of his I have seen
> have always seemed pretty normal. I don't know about the mysogny part ...
> I thought that was a fact of life down there ... :-)

Well, when his best retorts to somebody female involve calling them a ****
and making menstruation "jokes" I chalk that up to mysoginy. He thinks North
American killed his dad with an elaborate conspiracy for not liking their
ship, and his tactics are more similar to JTM's than they are different.

[Nicholas Fitzpatrick]

In article ink.net>,
Terrence Daniels > wrote:
>
>Well, when his best retorts to somebody female involve calling them a ****
>and making menstruation "jokes" I chalk that up to mysoginy. He thinks North
>American killed his dad with an elaborate conspiracy for not liking their
>ship, and his tactics are more similar to JTM's than they are different.

Oh, is that what it's all about. I've seen allusions, but never put 2+2
together. Hmm, that's just sad ...

Nick

[John Maxson]

You're a slow learner, Nick.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



Nicholas Fitzpatrick > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> John Maxson > wrote:
> >Nicholas Fitzpatrick > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >You're still out of line.
>
> Sorry, how do you mean?
>
> >> I'll just stick to this thread for a bit,
> >> and stick to my promise above not to prejudge him.
> >
> >But you just did -- again.
>
> How? I think you are reading my posts out of sequence.
>
> >No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
>
> Okay then, just answer my questions then.
>
> Oh, and can you please stop changing the subject line, and
> cross-posting all these new-groups? It makes it difficult for
> my news-reader.
>
> Thanks, Nick

[John Maxson]

Nicholas Fitzpatrick > wrote
in message ...
>
> Look, I've said I won't prejudge you. And I apologise for
> doing so without listening to your side of the story.

Okay, let's start over. This thread is misnamed. Pappy
hasn't "set the record straight;" he helped set me up. He
and my lead attorney failed to file a False Claims case for
me as promised. They claimed they couldn't get their FOIA
requests (for film) filled by NASA at JSC. They told me to
request it *for* them from KSC. KSC refused. Then they
said they *had* to have an original frame for spectral analysis
of the flame at 59 seconds in order to file. Months later, into
the Bush administration in 1989, they eventually settled for a
"screening" session. In no way did that aid spectral analysis.

> Credentials? Nothing particular ... I'm not an aerospace engineer.
> Though I am an engineer, so I should at least have some ability to
> comprehend issues. And I certainly lived through the 1980s, paying
> close attention to the issue at the time. (as an aside, I remember
> listening to the launch ... I was living in Indonesia at the time, and
> Voice of America picked up the NPR feed of the launch ... very
> wierd ... I haven't ever heard anyone mention this since, but I remember
> the one NPR commentator, after the explosion, commenting that
> the SRB separation was very clear, probably because of the cold ...
> followed by nothing but silence (and the NASA commentator eventually,
> with the famous major malfunction line).
>
> But I digress.
>
> What would have NASA's motive be in covering this up?

High-level officials at NASA wanted to keep their jobs.

> Sure, cover-ups occur, but they must be for a reason ... I expect
> we are witnessing one right now, in the White House ... but that's
> another story.

It's not altogether another story, believe it or not.

> And as a second question. Why do you keep adding other groups
> to the Newsgroups: line?

I don't. Those are the same groups I've always posted to (with the
Mosley title). Don't attack me personally and you won't see that
abuse notice. Feel free to change this title (and groups) if you like.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

[Charleston]

"John Maxson" > wrote in message
...

> In late October 1987, AF Col. Ed O'Connor (who directed the
> 51-L debris recovery) confirmed an in-cloud booster crossing....

Did you read Doug's post about psychosis? You know you don't have to prove
him right, but you are doing just that. You know the lack of quotes is what
gave it away;-)

>
> ===========================================
> DANIEL MAXSON: Do the SRBs -- or did they -- cross in
> the clouds?
> COL. ED O'CONNOR: Ya, the feeling is they did. What
> happened is when the aft fixture failed, that SRB rotated out.
> So that's why the thrust would force it to *cross* -- after the
> *forward* section failed -- cross the path of the other which
> was still *attached*!
> DANIEL MAXSON: Ya but -- but they were held *together*.
> I was told by a NASA expert the SRBs were held together by a
> big *ring* of the thrust structure of the external tank. Otherwise
> they would have immediately exited the cloud. And that they
> went maybe a half-second held together by some kind of an ET
> *ring* frame.
> COL. ED O'CONNOR: Well, there's *two* things that holds it
> together. At the *rear* there's a heavy ring for attachment, and
> that's where the *failure* occurred, heating one of those struts
> that holds them together and then *ripping* the rest of it out. In
> the *top* structure, there's a thrust *beam* that goes through
> the intertank area. There's some *ancillary* stuff there. The
> forward *held* for a little bit.
> DANIEL MAXSON: And it allowed them to cross.
> COL. ED O'CONNOR: Ya.
> DANIEL MAXSON: Okay.
> ===========================================

--

Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[JSH517]

Nick wrote,,

>Sometimes, I wonder if we would be better off moderating these groups, so
>as to keep the fruit loops out.

As much as I hate to say it this is one of the few intelligent things anyone
has said around here in a while.

Jim

[John Maxson]

===========================================
> > DANIEL MAXSON: Do the SRBs -- or did they -- cross in
> > the clouds?
> > COL. ED O'CONNOR: Ya, the feeling is they did. What
> > happened is when the aft fixture failed, that SRB rotated out.
> > So that's why the thrust would force it to *cross* -- after the
> > *forward* section failed -- cross the path of the other which
> > was still *attached*!
> > DANIEL MAXSON: Ya but -- but they were held *together*.
> > I was told by a NASA expert the SRBs were held together by a
> > big *ring* of the thrust structure of the external tank. Otherwise
> > they would have immediately exited the cloud. And that they
> > went maybe a half-second held together by some kind of an ET
> > *ring* frame.
> > COL. ED O'CONNOR: Well, there's *two* things that holds it
> > together. At the *rear* there's a heavy ring for attachment, and
> > that's where the *failure* occurred, heating one of those struts
> > that holds them together and then *ripping* the rest of it out. In
> > the *top* structure, there's a thrust *beam* that goes through
> > the intertank area. There's some *ancillary* stuff there. The
> > forward *held* for a little bit.
> > DANIEL MAXSON: And it allowed them to cross.
> > COL. ED O'CONNOR: Ya.
> > DANIEL MAXSON: Okay.
> > ===========================================

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Charleston > wrote
in message news:v%2Ua.39792$zy.12003@fed1read06...
>
> Did you read Doug's post about psychosis?

Do you read?

[Kent Betts]

"Jon Berndt"
> You are so predictable. So deluded. So tragic.

Is there some point when we can expect for you to give this topic a rest?

[Kent Betts]

"ON NASA ORIGINAL FILMS: In the original film you see the lower rocket
*does* have a ring and the ring on the upper rocket is caused by a shadow
thrown by the sun on a displaced frustrum creating a black shadow that
indeed looks like the black stripe."

> "John Maxson
> > It's a load of Texas steer manure, as always. Thanks Maxson, and **** you.

This aspect of the "crossing" wordage always intrigued me.....the stripe thing.
A few months ago I looked at the photo evidence and determined that the photo
was poor, but that it was possible to determine, that the so-called wide stripe
was not there.....that the stripes were where they were supposed to be.

>John Berndt
>"After viewing the original NASA film at the Cape, Pappy and the other
i>ndividual[s] there viewing the film smiled and nodded in agreement that the
>SRBs had NOT crossed. "

Good. It was a silly idea to start with.

[Jon Berndt]

"Roger Balettie" > wrote in message news:BX%

> "Jon Berndt" > wrote:
> > CASE CLOSED
>
> Outstanding work, Jon. This should be considered required reading for any
> new sci.space.* visitors.
>
> Please add to your web review at:
http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html
>
> My web review of "Betrayal" can be found at:
> http://home.austin.rr.com/sts51lvideo/
>
> Roger


Yep ... it will end up there.

Jon

[John Maxson]

Mosley posts his ongoing abuse from Giganews.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org>
wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:06:09 -0500, "Jon Berndt" >
> wrote:
>
> >The fact that John Maxson's FOIA copies are poorly printed (overexposed)
> >explains a lot. But, this shows that his use of the words of others is at
> >least sometimes twisted and incomplete, in order to paint the picture he
> >wants to paint.
>
> ...Heh. Heh, heh. Heh, heh, heh. Hee hee hee! Hee Hee HEE!
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!
>
> ...Talk about a major slam-dunk! Jon, you just earned BOD status on
> HORS!!! Someone get that man's personalized highback chair on order!!
>
>
> OM
>
> --
>
> "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
> his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
> poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society
>
> - General George S. Patton, Jr

[John Maxson]

Mosley still posts his abuse via Giganews.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org>
wrote in message ...
> On 25 Jul 2003 01:10:55 -0700, (NoLawyer) wrote:
>
> ...Anyway, I hear the Maxons need an attorney down in Killfile Hell.
> I'm sure they'll trade sexual favors for your services. Have a nice
> stay down there, eh?
>
> <PLONK>
>
> "But OM! You just sent Captain Kangaroo to Killfile Hell!"
>
> "Yeah, and you should have seen what CT was doing with Howdy Doody the
> last time I looked down there..."
>
>
> OM
>
> --
>
> "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
> his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
> poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society
>
> - General George S. Patton, Jr

[Jon Berndt]

"John Maxson" > wrote:

OM wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:06:09 -0500, "Jon Berndt" >
> wrote:
>
> >The fact that John Maxson's FOIA copies are poorly printed (overexposed)
> >explains a lot. But, this shows that his use of the words of others is at
> >least sometimes twisted and incomplete, in order to paint the picture he
> >wants to paint.
>
> ...Heh. Heh, heh. Heh, heh, heh. Hee hee hee! Hee Hee HEE!
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!
>
> ...Talk about a major slam-dunk! Jon, you just earned BOD status on
> HORS!!! Someone get that man's personalized highback chair on order!!

I thought so! I want to hold off on discussion of this topic as much as
possible, but when something like this presents itself, it needs to be
passed on. As I said, the poor copies John Maxson purchased at so much
expense are useless as far as determining which SRB is which via the ID
stripe. We've also seen his two-faced nature in name-dropping.

Jon

[John Maxson]

So, they switched all the contrails and all the other evidence
of the crossing as well? "Two-faced name dropping?"
Hardly! Your libel list is getting longer than your nose.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Jon Berndt > wrote in message
...
> "John Maxson" > wrote:
> OM wrote:
> > On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:06:09 -0500, "Jon Berndt" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >The fact that John Maxson's FOIA copies are poorly printed
(overexposed)
> > >explains a lot. But, this shows that his use of the words of others is
at
> > >least sometimes twisted and incomplete, in order to paint the picture
he
> > >wants to paint.
> >
> > ...Heh. Heh, heh. Heh, heh, heh. Hee hee hee! Hee Hee HEE!
> > BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!
> >
> > ...Talk about a major slam-dunk! Jon, you just earned BOD status on
> > HORS!!! Someone get that man's personalized highback chair on order!!
>
> I thought so! I want to hold off on discussion of this topic as much as
> possible, but when something like this presents itself, it needs to be
> passed on. As I said, the poor copies John Maxson purchased at so much
> expense are useless as far as determining which SRB is which via the ID
> stripe. We've also seen his two-faced nature in name-dropping.
>
> Jon

[Charleston]

"Jon Berndt" > wrote in message
...

> When I spoke with him he remembered lots of details - even page numbers
from
> the Rogers Report.

Reading all of that material, and seeing all of the video and some film
leaves an indelible imprint on your mind. It is unlike anything I have ever
studied in my life. It is why I have been able to quote info from written
sources on the accident fairly frequently and fairly accurately FWIW.

>
Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[Charleston]

"John Maxson" > wrote in message
...
> Jon Berndt > wrote in message

> > Squirm all you want, John Maxson, the truth is revealed in
> > your own words, and from your own sources.
>
> It takes a worm to squirm, Burnt. That's you -- and Dan.

This from a man who has withheld the truth about Pappy all these years?
Leave me alone.

--

Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[John Maxson]

This from the son who has constantly belittled and defamed
me? The one who won't own up to his own admission of early
knowledge (from O'Connor) of the fireball crossing? I'll have
plenty more to say here about what you've tried to do to me.

Don't ever lecture *me* about withholding information, you
lower than a burnt out maggot!

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Charleston > wrote
in message news:SHaUa.41801$zy.31555@fed1read06...
> "John Maxson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Jon Berndt > wrote in message
>
> > > Squirm all you want, John Maxson, the truth is revealed in
> > > your own words, and from your own sources.
> >
> > It takes a worm to squirm, Burnt. That's you -- and Dan.
>
> This from a man who has withheld the truth about Pappy all these
> years? Leave me alone.
>
> --
>
> Daniel
> Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[Charleston]

The truth of the Pappy info is getting to you, so you go personal? Jon did
his Pappy research on his own AFAIK, FWIW. I learned about it when I saw it
posted.

So when do you revert to the full personal assault posts yet again?

"John Maxson" > wrote in message
...

> This from the son who has constantly belittled and defamed
> me? The one who won't own up to his own admission of early
> knowledge (from O'Connor) of the fireball crossing? I'll have
> plenty more to say here about what you've tried to do to me.

Hardly. Regarding STS 51-L, no one on this planet has supported you over a
longer period of time and did more for you than I have done. No one.

> Don't ever lecture *me* about withholding information, you
> lower than a burnt out maggot!

No one can lecture you, least of all *me*.

--

Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[John Maxson]

Charleston > wrote
in message news:IQbUa.41907$zy.6373@fed1read06...
>
> The truth of the Pappy info is getting to you, so you go
> personal?

"Truth?" You've gone off the deep end.

> Regarding STS 51-L, no one on this planet has supported
> you over a longer period of time and did more for you than
> I have done. No one.

You are an ungrateful liar. You are unfit to bear my name.
You sloughed off copies of what *you* wanted to request.
You sided with my adversaries; to you I was no more than
your token father. Jean-Claude makes you look plain sick.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

[Dosco Jones]

"Jon Berndt" > wrote in message
...

> John Maxson wrote:
>
> Myron (Pappy) Papadakis (a well-known attorney, jumbo-jet pilot, and
> air-crash investigator) always referred to the crossing of the rocket
> boosters in the 51-L fireball as "the switcharoody."
>

Pappy wrote:
> "Thus We were of the opinion that NO SWITCH occurred. This was conveyed to
> Mr. Maxson."
>
> --- end ---
>


Well, that wraps that up.

Dosco

[John Maxson]

Only for jerks like you, who read selectively and look
selectively.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Dosco Jones > wrote in message
arthlink.net...
> "Jon Berndt" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> Pappy wrote:
> > "Thus We were of the opinion that NO SWITCH occurred.
> > This was conveyed to Mr. Maxson."
> >
> > --- end ---
> >
>
>
> Well, that wraps that up.
>
> Dosco

[Sander Vesik]

In sci.space.policy John Maxson > wrote:
> Jon Berndt > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Mr. Maxson seemed plenty interested in throwing about
>> names when he thought it might help him.
>
> More libel and defamation, I see. Is that all you can do?

Maybe you should conisder finding out what the terms "libel"
and "defmaion" actually mean? Becuase most of what you call
by them doesn't apepar to be.

> --
> John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
>

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

[John Maxson]

"Seemed," "when," "most," "appear?" Do you lame critics
ever do *anything* but hedge?

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



Sander Vesik > wrote in message
...
> In sci.space.policy John Maxson > wrote:
> > Jon Berndt > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> Mr. Maxson seemed plenty interested in throwing about
> >> names when he thought it might help him.
> >
> > More libel and defamation, I see. Is that all you can do?
>
> Maybe you should conisder finding out what the terms "libel"
> and "defmaion" actually mean? Becuase most of what you call
> by them doesn't apepar to be.
>
> > --
> > John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> > Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
> >
>
> --
> Sander
>
> +++ Out of cheese error +++

[John Maxson]

Sci.space abuse is on topic for sci.space, until something
is done about it. That includes the abuse you contribute.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Sander Vesik > wrote in message
...
> In sci.space.policy John Maxson > wrote:
> > "Seemed," "when," "most," "appear?" Do you lame critics
> > ever do *anything* but hedge?
> >
>
> As a matter of fact - 90% of what you post is not just compltete
> rubbish, its downright braindead spamming of the newsgroups over
> and over again with formulaic contentfree messages containing
> accusations of libel and defamation at the top followed by
> message text that has hardly anything to do with such claims or
> with the newgroups these are being posted to.
>
> So how about posting some posts that contain new material that
> is actually on-topic for teh newsgroups or shutting up ? If there
> is no content, there is nothing really to critisize, only to filter.
>
> > --
> > John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> > Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
> >
>
> --
> Sander
>
> +++ Out of cheese error +++

[John Maxson]

My posts generally run along these lines:

<http://www.google.com/groups?&selm=bf70kk%24i1h%241%40ins22.netins.net>

..

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Scott M. Kozel > wrote in message
...
> "John Maxson" > wrote:
> >
> > Sci.space abuse is on topic for sci.space, until something
> > is done about it. That includes the abuse you contribute.
>
> Maxson's apparently blind to the massive amounts of abuse
> that HE contributes.

[John Maxson]

What took you so long, to continue whining for Mosley?

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



Scott M. Kozel > wrote in message
...
> "John Maxson" > wrote:
> >
> > My posts generally run along these lines:
> >
> > <http://www.google.com/groups?&selm=bf70kk%24i1h%241%40ins22.netins.net>
>
> Oh, the deceptively attributed alleged missive, that you never would
> answer my questions about, after about a dozen posts several weeks ago
> where I requested you to do that.
>
> Most of your posts are a whine the "abuse" you think you are subject to.
>
>
> > Scott M. Kozel > wrote
> > > "John Maxson" > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Sci.space abuse is on topic for sci.space, until something
> > > > is done about it. That includes the abuse you contribute.
> > >
> > > Maxson's apparently blind to the massive amounts of abuse
> > > that HE contributes.

[Scott M. Kozel]

See? He tries to change the subject, again, rather than discuss the
attributions of the alleged missive.

"John Maxson" > wrote:
>
> What took you so long, to continue whining for Mosley?
>
> Scott M. Kozel > wrote
> > "John Maxson" > wrote:
> > >
> > > My posts generally run along these lines:
> > >
> > > <http://www.google.com/groups?&selm=bf70kk%24i1h%241%40ins22.netins.net>
> >
> > Oh, the deceptively attributed alleged missive, that you never would
> > answer my questions about, after about a dozen posts several weeks ago
> > where I requested you to do that.

[John Maxson]

The subject title hasn't changed. If you're reduced
to changing the subject, you should change the title.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Scott M. Kozel > wrote
in message ...
>
> See? He tries to change the subject, again, rather than discuss the
> attributions of the alleged missive.
>
> "John Maxson" > wrote:
> >
> > What took you so long, to continue whining for Mosley?

[Scott M. Kozel]

"John Maxson" > wrote:
>
> The subject title hasn't changed. If you're reduced
> to changing the subject, you should change the title.

What difference would that make? You avoid inconvenient questions, no
matter what the thread header.

> > Oh, the deceptively attributed alleged missive, that you never would
> > answer my questions about, after about a dozen posts several weeks ago
> > where I requested you to do that.


> Scott M. Kozel > wrote
>
> > See? He tries to change the subject, again, rather than discuss the
> > attributions of the alleged missive.

[Moe Blues]

In article >, "Scott M. Kozel"
> wrote:

> See? He tries to change the subject, again, rather than discuss the
> attributions of the alleged missive.
>
> "John Maxson" > wrote:
> >
> > What took you so long, to continue whining for Mosley?

Face it--Maxson's a moron. You, I, and many other people have tried to
engage him in discussion in a rational fashion. However, failing to
agree absolutely with his lunacy, or daring to question his sources or
assumptions, draws nonsense such as you have experienced.

It is painfully clear that, while Maxson may have something worthwhile
to say, he is utterly unable to either explain or support his
contentions. This is a shame. Where he willing to actually engage in
discussion, instead of flapdoodle such as this thread, he might
contribute something truly worthwhile.

Moe

[John Maxson]

Moe Blues > posts his frequent abuse
and defamation from Usenetserver.com.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Moe Blues > wrote in message
...
>
> Face it--Maxson's a moron. You, I, and many other people have tried to
> engage him in discussion in a rational fashion. However, failing to
> agree absolutely with his lunacy, or daring to question his sources or
> assumptions, draws nonsense such as you have experienced.
>
> It is painfully clear that, while Maxson may have something worthwhile
> to say, he is utterly unable to either explain or support his
> contentions. This is a shame. Where he willing to actually engage in
> discussion, instead of flapdoodle such as this thread, he might
> contribute something truly worthwhile.
>
> Moe

[John Maxson]

You quickly disable rational overtures toward ethical
discussion. You're here to discredit me and my book.
You're looking for "debate;" I'm here for discussion.
If you can't "debate," you switch to the third-degree.

You resort to off-the-wall insults. You fail to stay on
topic. Like Katz, you employ aggravation by repetition
(using the same rudely put, presumptive questions).

..

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Scott M. Kozel > wrote
in message ...
> "John Maxson" > wrote:
> >
> > The subject title hasn't changed. If you're reduced
> > to changing the subject, you should change the title.
>
> What difference would that make? You avoid inconvenient
> questions, no matter what the thread header.

[Doug...]

In article >,
says...
> In sci.space.policy John Maxson > wrote:
> > Jon Berndt > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> Mr. Maxson seemed plenty interested in throwing about
> >> names when he thought it might help him.
> >
> > More libel and defamation, I see. Is that all you can do?
>
> Maybe you should conisder finding out what the terms "libel"
> and "defmaion" actually mean? Becuase most of what you call
> by them doesn't apepar to be.

"I do not think that word means what you think it means." -Inigo
Montoya, "The Princess Bride."

--

It's not the pace of life I mind; | Doug Van Dorn
it's the sudden stop at the end... |

[Scott M. Kozel]

"John Maxson" > wrote:
>
> You quickly disable rational overtures toward ethical
> discussion.

Maxson slander and personal abuse.

> You're here to discredit me and my book.

No, I asked questions.

> You're looking for "debate;" I'm here for discussion.
> If you can't "debate," you switch to the third-degree.
>
> You resort to off-the-wall insults.

Pot, kettle, black.

> You fail to stay on topic.

Pot, kettle, black.

> Like Katz, you employ aggravation by repetition
> (using the same rudely put, presumptive questions).

You continually refuse to answer direct questions.

Look, your conspiracy theories implicitly attack many people. You flood
these newsgroups on a daily basis with your conspiracy theories. The
way I see it, you have an obligation to answer the questions that are
posed to you about your conspiracy theories, unless you don't want your
conspiracy theories to be taken seriously.

> > Oh, the deceptively attributed alleged missive, that you never would
> > answer my questions about, after about a dozen posts several weeks ago
> > where I requested you to do that.

The way that you worded that missive, makes it unclear whether A. Ernest
Fitzgerald is speaking or merely citing what YOU said.

The fact that you refuse to clear up that issue after repeated requests,
makes me wonder if you are here for honest discussion, or else you're
just a common conspiricist.


> Scott M. Kozel > wrote
> > "John Maxson" > wrote:
> > >
> > > The subject title hasn't changed. If you're reduced
> > > to changing the subject, you should change the title.
> >
> > What difference would that make? You avoid inconvenient
> > questions, no matter what the thread header.

[John Maxson]

What are your credentials for deriding me about Challenger?

You can't seem to get even the most basic things straight.
Conspiracy "theories," refusal "to answer" to impudence,
"implicitly" attack, "flood these newsgroups on a daily basis,"
"*you* worded that missive," "*Fitzgerald* is speaking,"
and the like place you well out to lunch. Don't expect a free
one from me without some retractions and a bit of humility.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Scott M. Kozel > wrote in message
...
> "John Maxson" > wrote:
>
> You continually refuse to answer direct questions.
>
> Look, your conspiracy theories implicitly attack many people. You flood
> these newsgroups on a daily basis with your conspiracy theories. The
> way I see it, you have an obligation to answer the questions that are
> posed to you about your conspiracy theories, unless you don't want your
> conspiracy theories to be taken seriously.
<snip>
> The way that you worded that missive, makes it unclear whether A. Ernest
> Fitzgerald is speaking or merely citing what YOU said.
>
> The fact that you refuse to clear up that issue after repeated requests,
> makes me wonder if you are here for honest discussion, or else you're
> just a common conspiricist.

[Scott M. Kozel]

"John Maxson" > wrote:
>
> What are your credentials for deriding me about Challenger?
>
> You can't seem to get even the most basic things straight.
> Conspiracy "theories," refusal "to answer" to impudence,
> "implicitly" attack, "flood these newsgroups on a daily basis,"
> "*you* worded that missive," "*Fitzgerald* is speaking,"
> and the like place you well out to lunch. Don't expect a free
> one from me without some retractions and a bit of humility.

More Barbara Streisand, handwaving and excuses.


> Scott M. Kozel > wrote:
> > "John Maxson" > wrote:
> >
> > You continually refuse to answer direct questions.
> >
> > Look, your conspiracy theories implicitly attack many people. You flood
> > these newsgroups on a daily basis with your conspiracy theories. The
> > way I see it, you have an obligation to answer the questions that are
> > posed to you about your conspiracy theories, unless you don't want your
> > conspiracy theories to be taken seriously.
> <snip>
> > The way that you worded that missive, makes it unclear whether A. Ernest
> > Fitzgerald is speaking or merely citing what YOU said.
> >
> > The fact that you refuse to clear up that issue after repeated requests,
> > makes me wonder if you are here for honest discussion, or else you're
> > just a common conspiricist.

[John Maxson]

Hollywood is the Lockheed/NASA recourse.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



Scott M. Kozel > wrote
in message ...
>
> More Barbara Streisand, handwaving and excuses.

[Sander Vesik]

In sci.space.policy John Maxson > wrote:
> Sci.space abuse is on topic for sci.space, until something
> is done about it. That includes the abuse you contribute.
>

What abuse?

> --
> John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
>

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

[Sander Vesik]

In sci.space.policy Doug... > wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>> In sci.space.policy John Maxson > wrote:
>> > Jon Berndt > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> Mr. Maxson seemed plenty interested in throwing about
>> >> names when he thought it might help him.
>> >
>> > More libel and defamation, I see. Is that all you can do?
>>
>> Maybe you should conisder finding out what the terms "libel"
>> and "defmaion" actually mean? Becuase most of what you call
>> by them doesn't apepar to be.
>
> "I do not think that word means what you think it means." -Inigo
> Montoya, "The Princess Bride."
>

8-)

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

[John Maxson]

The abuse you snipped, for starters.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Sander Vesik > wrote in message
...
> In sci.space.policy John Maxson > wrote:
>
> > Sci.space abuse is on topic for sci.space, until something
> > is done about it. That includes the abuse you contribute.
> >
>
> What abuse?
>
> > --
> > John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> > Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
> >
>
> --
> Sander
>
> +++ Out of cheese error +++

[Sander Vesik]

In sci.space.policy John Maxson > wrote:
> The abuse you snipped, for starters.
>

There was no abuse in the part what I snipped. But you are
welcome to prove that there was. Just copy, paste and
mark the abuse from the part I snipped. And if it was just
"for starters" I'm sure you will be able to provide pointers
to other abuse aswell, right?

> --
> John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
>

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

[John Maxson]

Just go back and look, sir. Unless you're "braindead."

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



Sander Vesik > wrote in message
...
>
> There was no abuse in the part what I snipped.

[Kent Betts]

"John Maxson" > wrote in message >...
> Only for jerks like you, who read selectively and look
> selectively.

You seem to have started a new thread for the purpose of posting an ad
hominem remark. This is inappropriate and a little rude.

[John Maxson]

Giganews posts/hosts Bob Mosley's neverending abuse
for Illuminati Online.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org>
wrote in message ...
> On 30 Jul 2003 01:16:32 -0700, (Kent Betts)
> wrote:
>
> >"John Maxson" > wrote in message
>...
>
> ...Not that the feeble old molester cares one iota. Just killfile him
> like everyone else should, and be done with him.
>
>
> OM
>
> --
>
> "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
> his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
> poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society
>
> - General George S. Patton, Jr

[Nicholas Fitzpatrick]

In article >,
John Maxson > wrote:
>Giganews posts/hosts Bob Mosley's neverending abuse
>for Illuminati Online.

Look, you might have differing views on certain issues than may people
here, but I don't know why you think that gives you the right to
generally abuse the newsgroup the way you do. There is no need
for all the cross-posting, and messing up of subject lines they way
you do. Not to mention that stuff like you wrote just is
unintelligeable.

Perhaps you could grow up some, and play nicely? I don't know how you
expect anyone to respect your opinions, when abuse the group so badly.

Nick

[John Maxson]

When the Mosley-led abuse stops, hopefully there will be
little need for me to continue to post abuse messages. It
seems reasonable for someone other than myself and Scott
Grissom to call for a halt to this abuse, but I don't see any
signs of anything here but support for BM (Herbs, et al).

Try contacting Mosley's belligerent ISPs (Illuminati Online
and Giganews) with mass mailings about his abuse, or try
consistently giving him a ration here the way you do me.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Nicholas Fitzpatrick > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> John Maxson > wrote:
>
> >Giganews posts/hosts Bob Mosley's neverending abuse
> >for Illuminati Online.
>
> Look, you might have differing views on certain issues than may people
> here, but I don't know why you think that gives you the right to
> generally abuse the newsgroup the way you do. There is no need
> for all the cross-posting, and messing up of subject lines they way
> you do. Not to mention that stuff like you wrote just is
> unintelligeable.
>
> Perhaps you could grow up some, and play nicely? I don't know how you
> expect anyone to respect your opinions, when abuse the group so badly.
>
> Nick

[Sander Vesik]

In sci.space.policy John Maxson > wrote:
> Just go back and look, sir. Unless you're "braindead."


As a matter of fact - 90% of what you post is not just compltete
rubbish, its downright braindead spamming of the newsgroups over
and over again with formulaic contentfree messages containing
accusations of libel and defamation at the top followed by
message text that has hardly anything to do with such claims or
with the newgroups these are being posted to.

So how about posting some posts that contain new material that
is actually on-topic for teh newsgroups or shutting up ? If there
is no content, there is nothing really to critisize, only to filter.

So, highlight any abusive and/or untrue statements in this. Or maybe there
is after all, no truth in anything you say?

>
> --
> John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
>
>
>
> Sander Vesik > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> There was no abuse in the part what I snipped.
>
>

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

[John Maxson]

Sander Vesik > wrote in message
...
>
> As a matter of fact - 90% of what you post is not just compltete
> rubbish, its downright braindead spamming of the newsgroups over
> and over again with formulaic contentfree messages containing
> accusations of libel and defamation at the top followed by
> message text that has hardly anything to do with such claims or
> with the newgroups these are being posted to.
>
> So, highlight any abusive and/or untrue statements in this.

You just did that for me. If you don't like the Mosley-led
'no redeeming social value' abuse, attack the source with
your libel. Mosley posts the abuse; I post abuse notices.

As John J. Sirica so well put it:

"It was shameful the way the question of guilt or
innocence kept getting turned into a question of
politics."

"... regardless of political risk, no self-respecting
politician could ignore the hard evidence."

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

[Nicholas Fitzpatrick]

In article >,
John Maxson > wrote:
>When the Mosley-led abuse stops, hopefully there will be
>little need for me to continue to post abuse messages. It
>seems reasonable for someone other than myself and Scott
>Grissom to call for a halt to this abuse, but I don't see any
>signs of anything here but support for BM (Herbs, et al).

There is never a need to spam newsgroups the way you have been doing.
I don't know who BM is ... and I'm not even sure who Mosley is, but
you are the one creating havoc with my newsreader by tieing all
these threads together all the time. I keep asking you politely to
stop. I'm not saying you are not entitled to your views, just
to discuss them without munging the subjects, and trying to spam all
these other unrelated newgroups; I'm sure if anyone there is interested,
they can find the thread here.

>Try contacting Mosley's belligerent ISPs (Illuminati Online
>and Giganews) with mass mailings about his abuse, or try
>consistently giving him a ration here the way you do me.

It will be your ISP I'll be contacting shortly! If anyone else
tries to create the havoc you have been creating, I'll tackle them
later.

Nick

[John Maxson]

That sounds rather serious, Bettsy. Have you notified your
Senator about your suspicions concerning selective snippage?

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



Kent Betts > wrote in message
om...
> "John Maxson" > wrote in message
>...
>
> > Only for jerks like you, who read selectively and look
> > selectively.
>
> You seem to have started a new thread for the purpose of posting
> an ad hominem remark. This is inappropriate and a little rude.

[Nicholas Fitzpatrick]

In article >,
John Maxson > wrote:
>Threats and intimidation such as yours flow freely from the
>Mosley-led abuse. Try removing your blinders, please.

As I don't even know who Mosley is, I don't understand how you say
this. All I'm doing, is saying, if you can't stop spamming the newsgroups
(and by that, I mean replying to every post, with a follow-up to many
other newsgroups), I'm going to complain to your ISP.

Thanks, Nick

[Chuck Stewart]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:17:31 +0000, Nicholas Fitzpatrick wrote:

> I've had it with this guy. Despite all my polite pleading and
> begging, he will not stop cross-posting. I am going to complain
> to his IP. I will provide more information when I get to it, and
> I recommend that everyone here do the same. Has anyone tried
> this before?

Ad infinitum... with no appreciable result.

JTM has apparently convinced his ISP of his bull**** and it thus
tries to "protect" his "free speech"... no matter how many of their
rules he breaks.

> Nick

--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?"

[Krondor]

It is what Maxson does. He is insane.

[Sander Vesik]

In sci.space.policy John Maxson > wrote:
> Sander Vesik > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> As a matter of fact - 90% of what you post is not just compltete
>> rubbish, its downright braindead spamming of the newsgroups over
>> and over again with formulaic contentfree messages containing
>> accusations of libel and defamation at the top followed by
>> message text that has hardly anything to do with such claims or
>> with the newgroups these are being posted to.
>>
>> So, highlight any abusive and/or untrue statements in this.
>
> You just did that for me. If you don't like the Mosley-led

No I didn't - I merely replicated the contents of my post so you
could point out the part that contained abuse. You do understand
the meaning of that word, right?

> 'no redeeming social value' abuse, attack the source with
> your libel. Mosley posts the abuse; I post abuse notices.
>

You just spam the newsgroup. You might not be the only one,
but that is hardly an excuse. And its starting to look like you
are not just a spammer but also a liar. So once again - point
out what part of my message was abusive, or retract your claims.

> As John J. Sirica so well put it:
>
> "It was shameful the way the question of guilt or
> innocence kept getting turned into a question of
> politics."
>
> "... regardless of political risk, no self-respecting
> politician could ignore the hard evidence."
>

Maybe your so called evidence is as non-existant as your
other claims posted to these newsgroups?

> --
> John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
>

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

[John Maxson]

My advice to you is to retract your libel.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Sander Vesik > wrote in message
...
> In sci.space.policy John Maxson > wrote:
> > Sander Vesik > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> As a matter of fact - 90% of what you post is not just compltete
> >> rubbish, its downright braindead spamming of the newsgroups over
> >> and over again with formulaic contentfree messages containing
> >> accusations of libel and defamation at the top followed by
> >> message text that has hardly anything to do with such claims or
> >> with the newgroups these are being posted to.
> >>
> >> So, highlight any abusive and/or untrue statements in this.
> >
> > You just did that for me. If you don't like the Mosley-led
>
> No I didn't - I merely replicated the contents of my post so you
> could point out the part that contained abuse. You do understand
> the meaning of that word, right?
>
> > 'no redeeming social value' abuse, attack the source with
> > your libel. Mosley posts the abuse; I post abuse notices.
> >
>
> You just spam the newsgroup. You might not be the only one,
> but that is hardly an excuse. And its starting to look like you
> are not just a spammer but also a liar. So once again - point
> out what part of my message was abusive, or retract your claims.
>
> > As John J. Sirica so well put it:
> >
> > "It was shameful the way the question of guilt or
> > innocence kept getting turned into a question of
> > politics."
> >
> > "... regardless of political risk, no self-respecting
> > politician could ignore the hard evidence."
> >
>
> Maybe your so called evidence is as non-existant as your
> other claims posted to these newsgroups?
>
> > --
> > John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> > Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
> >
>
> --
> Sander
>
> +++ Out of cheese error +++

[John Maxson]

I've explained to you before that if you don't want to see my
abuse notice, don't get involved in abuse (threats, defamation,
intimidation, and the like). The title tells you who BM is; and
no, your new threat is *not* all you've been "doing."

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Nicholas Fitzpatrick > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> John Maxson > wrote:
>
> >Threats and intimidation such as yours flow freely from the
> >Mosley-led abuse. Try removing your blinders, please.
>
> As I don't even know who Mosley is, I don't understand how you say
> this. All I'm doing, is saying, if you can't stop spamming the newsgroups
> (and by that, I mean replying to every post, with a follow-up to many
> other newsgroups), I'm going to complain to your ISP.
>
> Thanks, Nick

[John Maxson]

More abuse, eh?

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



Krondor > wrote in message
...
>
> It is what Maxson does. He is insane.

[Nicholas Fitzpatrick]

In article >,
John Maxson > wrote:
>I've explained to you before that if you don't want to see my
>abuse notice, don't get involved in abuse (threats, defamation,
>intimidation, and the like). The title tells you who BM is; and
>no, your new threat is *not* all you've been "doing."

Uh, yeah, I guess that BM must refer to the guy in the subject line,
though I still don't know who he is ... nor am I that interested ...

I've had it with this guy. Despite all my polite pleading and
begging, he will not stop cross-posting. I am going to complain
to his IP. I will provide more information when I get to it, and
I recommend that everyone here do the same. Has anyone tried
this before?

Nick

[John Maxson]

Sci.space abuse is a suitable topic for sci.space discussion,
particularly when people like you and Mosley engage in
threats and intimidation which affect all sci.space readers.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Nicholas Fitzpatrick > wrote
in message ...
> In article >,
> John Maxson > wrote:
>
> >I've explained to you before that if you don't want to see my
> >abuse notice, don't get involved in abuse (threats, defamation,
> >intimidation, and the like). The title tells you who BM is; and
> >no, your new threat is *not* all you've been "doing."
>
> Uh, yeah, I guess that BM must refer to the guy in the subject line,
> though I still don't know who he is ... nor am I that interested ...
>
> I've had it with this guy. Despite all my polite pleading and
> begging, he will not stop cross-posting. I am going to complain
> to his IP. I will provide more information when I get to it, and
> I recommend that everyone here do the same. Has anyone tried
> this before?
>
> Nick

[John Maxson]

When people like you can't stay on shuttle topics without
personal attacks in the style of Bob Mosley, it is proper
to change the title of the thread to a sci.space abuse notice.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Chuck Stewart > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:17:31 +0000, Nicholas Fitzpatrick wrote:
>
> > I've had it with this guy. Despite all my polite pleading and
> > begging, he will not stop cross-posting. I am going to complain
> > to his IP. I will provide more information when I get to it, and
> > I recommend that everyone here do the same. Has anyone tried
> > this before?
>
> Ad infinitum... with no appreciable result.
>
> JTM has apparently convinced his ISP of his bull**** and it thus
> tries to "protect" his "free speech"... no matter how many of their
> rules he breaks.
>
> > Nick
>
> --
> Chuck Stewart
> "Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?"

[Sander Vesik]

In sci.space.policy John Maxson > wrote:
> My advice to you is to retract your libel.

My advice to you at this point is to go and find out what
"libel" means. It sounds liekly that there is a library
with dictionary somewhere not prohibitively far from you,
alternatively you can use those available on internet. Seeing
a word being continualy misused does get boring over time.

>
> --
> John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
> Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)
>

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

[Terrence Daniels]

"Sander Vesik" > wrote in message
...
> No I didn't - I merely replicated the contents of my post so you
> could point out the part that contained abuse. You do understand
> the meaning of that word, right?

No, he doesn't. In his isolated, paranoid world, "abuse" is a synonym for
"disagreement."

Have you ever read "Angela's Ashes" by Frank McCourt? I never knew that the
word "abuse" could be used in reference to masturbation. In the book it was
phrased as "self-abuse" (a very Catholic term, if I do say so myself). It's
an apt metaphor for JTM's postings. Perhaps he's revealing something of
himself with his constant allegations of "abuse."

By the way, my conspiratorial, highly-targeted campaign of slander, lies,
defamation, abuse, libel...

(Hold on a second, I have to get my thesaurus)

....injury, vilification, desecration, insult, (I think I'll try "libel" and
see what's listed) calumniation, and ASPERSION, is hosted by Earthlink. I
have nothing to hide, so sue away. Furthermore JTM now has no more excuses
to "abuse" the word "libel" because I just gave him some synonyms.

[Kent Betts]

"Krondor"

> It is what Maxson does. He is insane.

HAHAHAHA........LMAO

[Charleston]

"Kent Betts" > wrote in message
...
> "Krondor"
>
> > It is what Maxson does. He is insane.
>
> HAHAHAHA........LMAO

Don't laugh it all off, you may need it down the road;-)

--

Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[John Maxson]

That's your message, Van Gogh; here's mine:

======================================
'One-Page Technical Summary of an O-Ring Cover-Up'
(requested by Pentagon efficiency expert A. Ernest
Fitzgerald on July 4, 2003)

NASA's fault-tree analysis failed to consider that Challenger's solid
rocket boosters could have crossed paths within the 51-L fireball.
A crossing necessarily negates Rogers' postulated "right-aft O-ring
burnthrough."

In a hearing on February 7, 1986, Dr. Feynman inquired: "Can I ask
a dumb question? Do we know on which side which rocket is
afterwards? Did they go like this and cross or do they look like they
went that way?" NASA put Feynman off, and Rogers sidetracked
him. Dr. Feynman did not know about NASA's black ID band until
I told him, in late 1987.

For photo/recovery identification, NASA paints a black ID band 18''
high around the nose of the space shuttle's *left* solid rocket booster.
Rogers ignored this ID band in his report, most notably at the crucial
fireball exit. Instead, Rogers conjectured a "R-SRB burnthrough" for
identification.

Rogers' ID relies on an enhanced 15-second film strip ending in
explosion. However, in JSC's '51-L Mission History Video,' the
continuation of this film strip leaves no doubt that the *flared* booster
sported the ID band.

On January 22, 1986, in a pre-Challenger technical report requested by
Senator Grassley's office, I warned: "... and 'cold flows' run at Pad B
were a failure, costing much waste of time and money. Tom Wiley can
testify to this. The net result of all this would be delays in launching
from Pad B, and delays in Centaur launches. I also learned from Bill
Bassler, Centaur 'single-point-of-contact' in LSOC CMO, that the
waste of hydrogen was deliberate, ..."

The terminal LH2 leaks were at the base of the left booster. It became
super-cooled during prelaunch scrubs. A thrust imbalance resulted.
That caused a right-aft leak in the hydrogen tank at lift-off, later
aggravated by 5000-plus degree heat from continuous R-Aft RCS
firings at 59 seconds. The pre-explosion chamber pressures of the two
boosters (relative to each other and to their respective lift-off pressures)
were to be expected.

NASA could not identify the key piece of lower booster debris by serial
number, or by *any other* of NASA's standard identification methods.

The Rogers Report admits that no direct view exists of the location from
which black smoke at lift-off and an assumed burnthrough at 59 seconds
originated. Live launch-day video refutes NASA's "burnthrough" copies.
Congressional subpoena of the originals should lead to credible closure.

John Thomas Maxson (www.mission51l.com)
===============================


Terrence Daniels > wrote
in message thlink.net...
>
> In his isolated, paranoid world, "abuse" is a synonym for
> "disagreement."
<snip>
> I never knew that the word "abuse" could be used in reference
> to masturbation.
<snip>
> It's an apt metaphor for JTM's postings. Perhaps he's revealing
> something of himself with his constant allegations of "abuse."

[Kent Betts]

How is it that with thousands of PhD engineers and many scores of
journalists running around that you are the only one who sees these
stripes and crossings and so on? There is something wrong with this
scenario. It seems that no one has really been convinced by the
evidence presented or wants the thing investigated again, but rather
most of the energy of the posters here is spent discounting your
arguments. Your frustration is misplaced.

[Charleston]

"Kent Betts" > wrote in message
m...
> How is it that with thousands of PhD engineers and many scores of
> journalists running around that you are the only one who sees these
> stripes and crossings and so on? There is something wrong with this
> scenario. It seems that no one has really been convinced by the
> evidence presented or wants the thing investigated again, but rather
> most of the energy of the posters here is spent discounting your
> arguments. Your frustration is misplaced.

I know the thread is mixed up but if you go back to the beginning, you can
see that an aviation crash investigation type lawyer found my Dad's work to
be very compelling in 1988. See quote below from the first post by Jon
Berndt. I still remember how NASA let the two lawyers see the films but not
my Dad. Had he been allowed to see the films I believe things would have
turned out far better for him. He did all that work and was just plain shut
out b y NASA. They could have allowed him to see the films if they had
nothing to hide right? One thing that bothers me is why "Pappy" could
remember so much and forget the film roll numbers. I mean what was he
smoking? ;-) I am trying hard to see things as they happened back then and
I still have some questions. If we are really fair, maybe we ought to make
sure we understand the particulars instead of making general attacks. Of
course that includes me.

"Myron Papadakis said:

'Indeed everything John relayed to you is correct, as of early morning July
11, 1988. The photography that John Maxon showed was so compelling it was my
belief at that time that a "switcheroody" had occurred. That name is based
on a Tom Osbourne trick play at Nebraska (Go Big Red). This was based on his
films and still photos and the Rogers report pictures.'

[Pappy related to me that NASA, in practice, had impounded their original
film, and made ten copies for the investigation.

He continued:

'We got a U.S. Senator's help in our demand to see ORIGINAL IMPOUNDED
FILM -- not even the Rogers commission saw the real thing. But, instead
they saw one of ten original copies. We travelled to the Cape and viewed
the real film. Luckily for us and the USA the real films showed what the
FOIA films did not.'"

--

Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[Dosco Jones]

"Kent Betts" > wrote in message
m...
> How is it that with thousands of PhD engineers and many scores of
> journalists running around that you are the only one who sees these
> stripes and crossings and so on? There is something wrong with this
> scenario. It seems that no one has really been convinced by the
> evidence presented or wants the thing investigated again, but rather
> most of the energy of the posters here is spent discounting your
> arguments. Your frustration is misplaced.
>

Kent, don't waste your breath. He's a paranoid schizophrenic with
delusionary tendencies. Long term psychiatric hospitalization is the only
solution for him, but it won't happen until he's deemed non compus mentis.

[John Maxson]

"Crazy Like a Fox!" If you'd read my book you'd see what
the journalists and engineering experts really say. Anyone can
hurl blind libel around the way you do -- for a time.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)



Dosco Jones > wrote in message
arthlink.net...
> "Kent Betts" > wrote in message
> m...
>
> > How is it that with thousands of PhD engineers and many scores of
> > journalists running around that you are the only one who sees these
> > stripes and crossings and so on? There is something wrong with this
> > scenario. It seems that no one has really been convinced by the
> > evidence presented or wants the thing investigated again, but rather
> > most of the energy of the posters here is spent discounting your
> > arguments. Your frustration is misplaced.
> >
>
> Kent, don't waste your breath. He's a paranoid schizophrenic with
> delusionary tendencies. Long term psychiatric hospitalization is the only
> solution for him, but it won't happen until he's deemed non compus mentis.

[Scott Hedrick]

"Scott M. Kozel" > wrote in message
...
> "John Maxson" > wrote:

I don't care what he wrote. Looks like I'm going to have to killfile you for
continually reposting it.
--
If you have had problems with Illinois Student Assistance Commission (ISAC),
please contact shredder at bellsouth dot net. There may be a class-action
lawsuit
in the works.

[Charleston]

"Dosco Jones" > wrote:
> "Kent Betts" > wrote:

> > How is it that with thousands of PhD engineers and many scores of
> > journalists running around that you are the only one who sees these
> > stripes and crossings and so on?

He was not the only one who believed NASA lied, as I pointed out with
Pappy's comments.

> >There is something wrong with this
> > scenario. It seems that no one has really been convinced by the
> > evidence presented or wants the thing investigated again, but rather
> > most of the energy of the posters here is spent discounting your
> > arguments. Your frustration is misplaced.

I was of your opinion too, and as recently as July 11th, I posted the
following:

> "Charleston" > wrote:
>
> > "It is a surprise for many that the conclusions for the cause of the
> > Challenger accident were not even required to meet the status of "most
> > probable cause" or causes. They just had to meet plain old civil law
> > "probable".

Jon Berndt then wrote:

"I'm curious. Given all the research you've done, do you think the
Commission found the actual "direct" cause (O-ring failure)? If so, do you
think they went far enough in fingering the other contributing causes
(culture, etc.)?"

to which I responded:

"I do believe the failure of the right aft field joint caused the accident.
The Roger's Commission nailed all but the most significant aspects of the
joint failure. It winked at them a few times, but ya, they missed part of
the cause."

Now having posted that let me say now, WAIT A SECOND. I thought I
understood the cause of the Challenger Accident UNTIL, Jon Berndt
interviewed Myron Pappadakis. Now, I frankly must reconsider all of the
facts that led me to the conclusion Pappy came to after viewing "original"
launch films. So please allow me to ask some questions about Pappy's
conclusions. Questions that must be reconciled to all that we know of the
accident as a whole. This group can not fairly take Pappy's written e-mail
to Jon Berndt quoted here as the Gospel. We must critically evaluate all
that he wrote to Jon Berndt. Would somebody, anybody, with a fair mind say,
Amen? I mean if you ever want the story to be resolved, shouldn't we at
least take Pappy's declarative statements at face value and deal with them?

--

Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[Charleston]

On July 24th, 2003, Jon Berndt made a post to Sci.Space.Shuttle that I will
requote in its entirety to set up the framework for this thread. Let me say
that I believe Jon is accurately quoting Mr. Pappadakis, but I also believe
that the information Pappy shared with Jon, which was left out of his post
is patently misleading. For the sake of credibility I think that Jon should
post the entire e-mail or e-mails with headers included. I also believe
that Jon should review in some detail, his as well. I am sure Pappy won't
mind.




"Mr. John Maxson has quoted quite a few people, both online here and in his
book. I have addressed some of these quotes on my web page at:

http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html

One difficulty in evaluating John Maxson's quotes of others is that the
individuals named have not been accessible - up until now.

On 7/22/2003 at 15:35 CDT John Thomas Maxson posted on sci.space.shuttle:

--- start ---

John Maxson wrote:

Myron (Pappy) Papadakis (a well-known attorney, jumbo-jet pilot, and
air-crash investigator) always referred to the crossing of the rocket
boosters in the 51-L fireball as "the switcharoody."

When Pappy finally left my former Florida home at 5 am on July 11, 1988, he
told me, "Before I came here, I was not convinced of the switcharoody. I am
now!"

--- end ---

I managed to track down Mr. Papadakis, who was gracious enough to answer
some of my questions via email, and he also called me to discuss the topic
further. His answers shed a LOT of *light* on Mr. Maxson's claim, and tells
us "the rest of the story".

Myron Papadakis said:

"Indeed everything John relayed to you is correct, as of early morning July
11, 1988. The photography that John Maxon showed was so compelling it was my
belief at that time that a "switcheroody" had occurred. That name is based
on a Tom Osbourne trick play at Nebraska (Go Big Red). This was based on his
films and still photos and the Rogers report pictures."

[Pappy related to me that NASA, in practice, had impounded their original
film, and made ten copies for the investigation.

He continued:

"We got a U.S. Senator's help in our demand to see ORIGINAL IMPOUNDED
FILM -- not even the Rogers commission saw the real thing. But, instead
they saw one of ten original copies. We travelled to the Cape and viewed
the real film. Luckily for us and the USA the real films showed what the
FOIA films did not."

"ON MAXSON'S FILMS obtained via FOIA from NASA: The lower rocket [the one
that took a low trajectory, i.e. south-exiting] did not show the black paint
near the frustrum because of overexposed white blinding out the paint in the
cheap copies, while the upper rocket showed a black ring thought to be the
black paint ring."

"ON NASA ORIGINAL FILMS: In the original film you see the lower rocket
*does* have a ring and the ring on the upper rocket is caused by a shadow
thrown by the sun on a displaced frustrum creating a black shadow that
indeed looks like the black stripe."

"Thus We were of the opinion that NO SWITCH occurred. This was conveyed to
Mr. Maxson."

--- end ---

I found this to be very interesting, but I wanted to be sure I understood
what he was saying.

So, I asked him again:

--- start ---

Jon wrote:

"Thanks for your reply - a very informative and detailed reply. I am a
little unclear on one thing, though: As of today, do you believe the SRBs
crossed, or do you believe the Roger's Commission got it generally correct?
It seems in your email below that you initially believed you had evidence
that the booster rockets *did* cross, but that after more in-depth research,
it was shown that the SRBs did *not* cross in the cloud."

--- end ---

"Pappy" wrote back and said:

--- start ---

We were convinced that they had crossed -- from the *preliminary* films and
poor quality pictures. Even those included in the Rogers report had been
reproduced so many times as to give wrong conclusions.

If you study only the poor pictures the lower one coming out of the cloud is
not ruptured and is a brilliant white -- with no band. The upper ruptured
right one now appears coming out of the top with a distinct black band
visible near frustrum.

Only when the 154 film from theodolites are studied do you get clear enough
pictures to see the lower rocket really does have the stripe. The upper
rockets black line is shown in this film to actually be caused by the
frustrum that is displaced and causing a dark shadow where a stripe would
be."

--- end ---

When I spoke with him today he was very congenial and we talked about
various aspects of the accident. We closed with him encouraging me that I
stood on solid ground. He was also quite emphatic about the SRBs NOT
crossing - the original film did not lie.

The fact that John Maxson's FOIA copies are poorly printed (overexposed)
explains a lot. But, this shows that his use of the words of others is at
least sometimes twisted and incomplete, in order to paint the picture he
wants to paint.

CASE CLOSED

Jon"

--

Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[Stephen Stocker]

In article ink.net>,
Dosco Jones wrote:
>
> "Kent Betts" > wrote in message
> m...
>> How is it that with thousands of PhD engineers and many scores of
>> journalists running around that you are the only one who sees these
>> stripes and crossings and so on? There is something wrong with this
>> scenario. It seems that no one has really been convinced by the
>> evidence presented or wants the thing investigated again, but rather
>> most of the energy of the posters here is spent discounting your
>> arguments. Your frustration is misplaced.
>>
>
> Kent, don't waste your breath. He's a paranoid schizophrenic with
> delusionary tendencies. Long term psychiatric hospitalization is the only
> solution for him, but it won't happen until he's deemed non compus mentis.

Whew. Even the worst of the quacks I've run across in the mental
health field wouldn't hazard a diagnosis like this. At least those who
use terms like "whacko" implicitly admit their ignorance in that
field.

Steve

[Stephen Stocker]

In article <zjhXa.62026$zy.29443@fed1read06>, Charleston wrote:
> On July 24th, 2003, Jon Berndt made a post to Sci.Space.Shuttle that I will
> requote in its entirety to set up the framework for this thread. Let me say
> that I believe Jon is accurately quoting Mr. Pappadakis, but I also believe
> that the information Pappy shared with Jon, which was left out of his post
> is patently misleading. For the sake of credibility I think that Jon should
> post the entire e-mail or e-mails with headers included. I also believe
> that Jon should review in some detail, his as well. I am sure Pappy won't
> mind.
<snip>

Thanks for posting this. Now I have at least some idea of what's being
discussed.

Steve

[Dosco Jones]

"Stephen Stocker" > wrote in message
...
> In article ink.net>,
> Dosco Jones wrote:
> >
> > "Kent Betts" > wrote in message
> > m...
> >> How is it that with thousands of PhD engineers and many scores of
> >> journalists running around that you are the only one who sees these
> >> stripes and crossings and so on? There is something wrong with this
> >> scenario. It seems that no one has really been convinced by the
> >> evidence presented or wants the thing investigated again, but rather
> >> most of the energy of the posters here is spent discounting your
> >> arguments. Your frustration is misplaced.
> >>
> >
> > Kent, don't waste your breath. He's a paranoid schizophrenic with
> > delusionary tendencies. Long term psychiatric hospitalization is the
only
> > solution for him, but it won't happen until he's deemed non compus
mentis.
>
> Whew. Even the worst of the quacks I've run across in the mental
> health field wouldn't hazard a diagnosis like this. At least those who
> use terms like "whacko" implicitly admit their ignorance in that
> field.
>
> Steve


It's a direct quote from an MD with a 26 year career as a psychiatrist. She
reads this group on a regular basis as a part of an ongoing study, and no,
you don't get to know who she is.

Dosco

[Charleston]

"Dosco Jones" > wrote in message news:C6iXa.130972>
> "Stephen Stocker" > wrote in message
>
> It's a direct quote from an MD with a 26 year career as a psychiatrist.
She
> reads this group on a regular basis as a part of an ongoing study, and no,
> you don't get to know who she is.

Has she ever spoken wih my Dad or does she do long distance medical
diagnostic work without anything more than the context of usenet and a poor
man's website. Interesting medical practice and procedures, er, opinions
here.

--

Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[Stephen Stocker]

In article ink.net>,
Dosco Jones wrote:
>
> "Stephen Stocker" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article ink.net>,
>> Dosco Jones wrote:
>> >
>> > "Kent Betts" > wrote in message
>> > m...
>> >> How is it that with thousands of PhD engineers and many scores of
>> >> journalists running around that you are the only one who sees these
>> >> stripes and crossings and so on? There is something wrong with this
>> >> scenario. It seems that no one has really been convinced by the
>> >> evidence presented or wants the thing investigated again, but rather
>> >> most of the energy of the posters here is spent discounting your
>> >> arguments. Your frustration is misplaced.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Kent, don't waste your breath. He's a paranoid schizophrenic with
>> > delusionary tendencies. Long term psychiatric hospitalization is the
> only
>> > solution for him, but it won't happen until he's deemed non compus
> mentis.
>>
>> Whew. Even the worst of the quacks I've run across in the mental
>> health field wouldn't hazard a diagnosis like this. At least those who
>> use terms like "whacko" implicitly admit their ignorance in that
>> field.
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> It's a direct quote from an MD with a 26 year career as a psychiatrist. She
> reads this group on a regular basis as a part of an ongoing study, and no,
> you don't get to know who she is.

Has she considered retirement?

Steve

[Dosco Jones]

"Stephen Stocker" > wrote in message
...
> In article ink.net>,
> Dosco Jones wrote:
> >
> > "Stephen Stocker" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> In article ink.net>,
> >> Dosco Jones wrote:
> >> >
> >> > "Kent Betts" > wrote in message
> >> > m...
> >> >> How is it that with thousands of PhD engineers and many scores of
> >> >> journalists running around that you are the only one who sees these
> >> >> stripes and crossings and so on? There is something wrong with this
> >> >> scenario. It seems that no one has really been convinced by the
> >> >> evidence presented or wants the thing investigated again, but rather
> >> >> most of the energy of the posters here is spent discounting your
> >> >> arguments. Your frustration is misplaced.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Kent, don't waste your breath. He's a paranoid schizophrenic with
> >> > delusionary tendencies. Long term psychiatric hospitalization is the
> > only
> >> > solution for him, but it won't happen until he's deemed non compus
> > mentis.
> >>
> >> Whew. Even the worst of the quacks I've run across in the mental
> >> health field wouldn't hazard a diagnosis like this. At least those
who
> >> use terms like "whacko" implicitly admit their ignorance in that
> >> field.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >
> >
> > It's a direct quote from an MD with a 26 year career as a psychiatrist.
She
> > reads this group on a regular basis as a part of an ongoing study, and
no,
> > you don't get to know who she is.
>
> Has she considered retirement?
>
> Steve


Stocker, you're a putz. You don't know dick, and you prove it each time you
open your mouth.

<plonk>

[Herb Schaltegger]

In article ink.net>,
"Dosco Jones" > wrote:

> "Stephen Stocker" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article ink.net>,
> > Dosco Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > "Kent Betts" > wrote in message
> > > m...
> > >> How is it that with thousands of PhD engineers and many scores of
> > >> journalists running around that you are the only one who sees these
> > >> stripes and crossings and so on? There is something wrong with this
> > >> scenario. It seems that no one has really been convinced by the
> > >> evidence presented or wants the thing investigated again, but rather
> > >> most of the energy of the posters here is spent discounting your
> > >> arguments. Your frustration is misplaced.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Kent, don't waste your breath. He's a paranoid schizophrenic with
> > > delusionary tendencies. Long term psychiatric hospitalization is the
> only
> > > solution for him, but it won't happen until he's deemed non compus
> mentis.
> >
> > Whew. Even the worst of the quacks I've run across in the mental
> > health field wouldn't hazard a diagnosis like this. At least those who
> > use terms like "whacko" implicitly admit their ignorance in that
> > field.
> >
> > Steve
>
>
> It's a direct quote from an MD with a 26 year career as a psychiatrist. She
> reads this group on a regular basis as a part of an ongoing study, and no,
> you don't get to know who she is.
>
> Dosco
>

With regard to JTM, ask her to google for my stab at DSM IV diagnoses
for him based on his posting history. I'd be curious if she agrees with
me. Of course, I'm not a psychiatrist and I don't even play one on TV;
I've just taken and read many depositions of them and I have a passing
familiarity with the DSM IV.

--
Herb Schaltegger, Esq.
Chief Counsel, Human O-Ring Society
"I was promised flying cars! Where are the flying cars?!"
~ Avery Brooks

[John Maxson]

Charleston > wrote
in message news:N8hXa.62023$zy.45183@fed1read06...
>
> This group can not fairly take Pappy's written e-mail to
> Jon Berndt quoted here as the Gospel. We must critically
> evaluate all that he wrote to Jon Berndt.

Maybe Jon, in arguing the Lockheed/NASA/Rogers case,
has forgotten about Nixon. Quoting Archibald Cox:

"Not even a President can be allowed to select some
accounts of a conversation for public disclosure and
then to frustrate further grand jury inquiries by with-
holding the best evidence of what actually took place."

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

[Stephen Stocker]

In article ink.net>,
Dosco Jones wrote:
>
> "Stephen Stocker" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article ink.net>,
>> Dosco Jones wrote:
>> >
>> > "Stephen Stocker" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> In article ink.net>,
>> >> Dosco Jones wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > "Kent Betts" > wrote in message
>> >> > m...
>> >> >> How is it that with thousands of PhD engineers and many scores of
>> >> >> journalists running around that you are the only one who sees these
>> >> >> stripes and crossings and so on? There is something wrong with this
>> >> >> scenario. It seems that no one has really been convinced by the
>> >> >> evidence presented or wants the thing investigated again, but rather
>> >> >> most of the energy of the posters here is spent discounting your
>> >> >> arguments. Your frustration is misplaced.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Kent, don't waste your breath. He's a paranoid schizophrenic with
>> >> > delusionary tendencies. Long term psychiatric hospitalization is the
>> > only
>> >> > solution for him, but it won't happen until he's deemed non compus
>> > mentis.
>> >>
>> >> Whew. Even the worst of the quacks I've run across in the mental
>> >> health field wouldn't hazard a diagnosis like this. At least those
> who
>> >> use terms like "whacko" implicitly admit their ignorance in that
>> >> field.
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >
>> >
>> > It's a direct quote from an MD with a 26 year career as a psychiatrist.
> She
>> > reads this group on a regular basis as a part of an ongoing study, and
> no,
>> > you don't get to know who she is.
>>
>> Has she considered retirement?
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> Stocker, you're a putz. You don't know dick, and you prove it each time you
> open your mouth.

Sad, isn't it? I really think you should stop reading my ignorant
rantings.

Steve

[Charleston]

"John Maxson" > wrote:
> Charleston > wrote:
> >
> > This group can not fairly take Pappy's written e-mail to
> > Jon Berndt quoted here as the Gospel. We must critically
> > evaluate all that he wrote to Jon Berndt.
>
> Maybe Jon, in arguing the Lockheed/NASA/Rogers case,
> has forgotten about Nixon. Quoting Archibald Cox:
>
> "Not even a President can be allowed to select some
> accounts of a conversation for public disclosure and
> then to frustrate further grand jury inquiries by with-
> holding the best evidence of what actually took place."

Ya that would pretty well sum it up.

--

Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[Stephen Stocker]

In article <_TjXa.62294$zy.6135@fed1read06>, Charleston wrote:
> "Dosco Jones" > wrote in message
> arthlink.net...
>>
>> "Herb Schaltegger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> >
>> > With regard to JTM, ask her to google for my stab at DSM IV diagnoses
>> > for him based on his posting history. I'd be curious if she agrees with
>> > me. Of course, I'm not a psychiatrist and I don't even play one on TV;
>> > I've just taken and read many depositions of them and I have a passing
>> > familiarity with the DSM IV.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Herb Schaltegger, Esq.
>> > Chief Counsel, Human O-Ring Society
>
> Great credentials.
>
> I'll pass them along ;-)

I checked, the APA's very impressed. :)

>> I'll pass your question along.
>
> Last one with the question has to look up the answer on Google.

Guilty as charged. What was the question again? *sigh*

>> For what it's worth, and knowing that I haven't spent much time with the
> DSM
>> recently, I'd say you were spot on.
>
> Is that like spotting?
>
> Usenet psychiatry for the ages. Now available for free on S.S.S.. We have
> all played the game but then none of us are putting a license out there on
> the line are we?

Makes me wish I hadn't spent all that money on therapy, I could've
just popped in here! :)

On a serious note, I wish I felt free to relate some of the cases of
disciplinary action taken against legally qualified MH professionals
who, with the best of intentions, tried the online diagnosis game.

So much for yet another distraction in an otherwise interesting
thread.

Steve

[Paul Maxson]

"ask her to google for my stab at DSM IV diagnoses."

You are an attorney and a Dr.?

Wow, so you get your clients/patients from newsgroups? Business must be
slow,
I think you are running out of patience. Err I mean patients, get it? :0


"Herb Schaltegger" > wrote in message
...
> In article ink.net>,
> "Dosco Jones" > wrote:
>
> > "Stephen Stocker" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article
ink.net>,
> > > Dosco Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Kent Betts" > wrote in message
> > > > m...
> > > >> How is it that with thousands of PhD engineers and many scores of
> > > >> journalists running around that you are the only one who sees these
> > > >> stripes and crossings and so on? There is something wrong with
this
> > > >> scenario. It seems that no one has really been convinced by the
> > > >> evidence presented or wants the thing investigated again, but
rather
> > > >> most of the energy of the posters here is spent discounting your
> > > >> arguments. Your frustration is misplaced.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Kent, don't waste your breath. He's a paranoid schizophrenic with
> > > > delusionary tendencies. Long term psychiatric hospitalization is
the
> > only
> > > > solution for him, but it won't happen until he's deemed non compus
> > mentis.
> > >
> > > Whew. Even the worst of the quacks I've run across in the mental
> > > health field wouldn't hazard a diagnosis like this. At least those
who
> > > use terms like "whacko" implicitly admit their ignorance in that
> > > field.
> > >
> > > Steve
> >
> >
> > It's a direct quote from an MD with a 26 year career as a psychiatrist.
She
> > reads this group on a regular basis as a part of an ongoing study, and
no,
> > you don't get to know who she is.
> >
> > Dosco
> >
>
> With regard to JTM, ask her to google for my stab at DSM IV diagnoses
> for him based on his posting history. I'd be curious if she agrees with
> me. Of course, I'm not a psychiatrist and I don't even play one on TV;
> I've just taken and read many depositions of them and I have a passing
> familiarity with the DSM IV.
>
> --
> Herb Schaltegger, Esq.
> Chief Counsel, Human O-Ring Society
> "I was promised flying cars! Where are the flying cars?!"
> ~ Avery Brooks

[Kent Betts]

"Dosco Jones

> Kent, don't waste your breath. He's a paranoid schizophrenic with
> delusionary tendencies. Long term psychiatric hospitalization is the only
> solution for him, but it won't happen until he's deemed non compus mentis.

Yeah you're right. The booster crossing isn't even in question. J
Maxson is certifiable. No one cares about his ranting....he is amusing
only in the aspects of his insanity, the paranoid schizophrenia. I
actually ignored it for a month. I think I will leave it alone.
Lemme know if he comes up with something new....ha ha.

[Herb Schaltegger]

In article <ajkXa.58667$uu5.6154@sccrnsc04>,
"Paul Maxson" > wrote:

> "ask her to google for my stab at DSM IV diagnoses."
>
> You are an attorney and a Dr.?
>
> Wow, so you get your clients/patients from newsgroups? Business must be
> slow,
> I think you are running out of patience. Err I mean patients, get it? :0
>

I clearly stated I'm not a doctor. That said, I understand the DSM IV
and how it's applied; I've deposed many doctors and read the depositions
of an order of magnitude more than that.

You can defend him all you want. On the other hand, his actions and
postings fit the criteria of several of the diagnoses in the DSM IV; he
acts paranoid; he's got delusions of grandeur and self-importance; he
see's "Truths" that no one but him and perhaps an extremely small cadre
of those in the Inner Circle can see; he argues in circles; he refuses
to answer directly, choosing instead to drop little hints and make
evasions; any serious questions of his beliefs are treated as personal
insults and he responds with juvenile name calling; etc.

Step back from the family aspect of this and watch as an outside
observer and you'll see that what nearly everyone else seems to see.
After all, everyone in this newsgroup started as an outsider; JTM's
posting history speaks for itself.

--
Herb Schaltegger, Esq.
Chief Counsel, Human O-Ring Society
"I was promised flying cars! Where are the flying cars?!"
~ Avery Brooks

[Herb Schaltegger]

In article <_TjXa.62294$zy.6135@fed1read06>,
"Charleston" > wrote:

> "Dosco Jones" > wrote in message
> arthlink.net...
> >
> > "Herb Schaltegger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > >
> > > With regard to JTM, ask her to google for my stab at DSM IV diagnoses
> > > for him based on his posting history. I'd be curious if she agrees with
> > > me. Of course, I'm not a psychiatrist and I don't even play one on TV;
> > > I've just taken and read many depositions of them and I have a passing
> > > familiarity with the DSM IV.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Herb Schaltegger, Esq.
> > > Chief Counsel, Human O-Ring Society
>
> Great credentials.
>
> I'll pass them along ;-)

Pass this along: Bachelor of Science in Aerospace Engineering; admitted
to practice law before the Tennessee Supreme Court, the U.S. District
Court for the Middle District of Tennessee; the U.S. Distrcit Court for
the Eastern District of Tennessee; the U.S. Sixth Circuit Court of
Appeals; and the United States Supreme Court.

> > I'll pass your question along.
>
> Last one with the question has to look up the answer on Google.

<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=herb-No-SpAm-Schaltegger-6B8A34.081
43426032003%40enews.newsguy.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain>

> > For what it's worth, and knowing that I haven't spent much time with the
> DSM
> > recently, I'd say you were spot on.
>
> Is that like spotting?

Mysogynistic menstruation jokes?

> Usenet psychiatry for the ages. Now available for free on S.S.S.. We have
> all played the game but then none of us are putting a license out there on
> the line are we?

Irrelevent. Your father's posting history speaks for itself.

--
Herb Schaltegger, Esq.
Chief Counsel, Human O-Ring Society
"I was promised flying cars! Where are the flying cars?!"
~ Avery Brooks

[Paul Maxson]

---
"I clearly stated I'm not a doctor. That said, I understand the DSM IV
and how it's applied; I've deposed many doctors and read the depositions
of an order of magnitude more than that."
-------------------------

Sir,

You admittedly are not qualified to score a MMPI test to reach this
conclusion
in ANY state in the U.S. That and an interview with the patient would be
needed
but you have done neither nor are you qualified to do so.

Deposing Dr.'s does not make you a Psychologist, so objection! :-)

I have stood back and watched him hold the line for 2 maybe 3 years now
often times by himself and I have seen people like you come and go and
it doesn't change anything. New names, new handles etc but he still plugs
on.
Everyone says they "plonk him" but they don't they just keep going at it.

Now you have him analyzed? What if he were a 15 year old kid, you are just
reading text! Objection sustained. ;-)


P.S. As an Attorney (6 figures here in California) I would be
*embarrassed* by your sig (but that's just me.) I would be off driving a Jag
on a Country road not playing Dr. on a newsgroup as some rings Chief
Council.
To each his own huh Chief?

Paul Maxson


"Herb Schaltegger" > wrote in message
...
> In article <ajkXa.58667$uu5.6154@sccrnsc04>,
> "Paul Maxson" > wrote:
>
> > "ask her to google for my stab at DSM IV diagnoses."
> >
> > You are an attorney and a Dr.?
> >
> > Wow, so you get your clients/patients from newsgroups? Business must be
> > slow,
> > I think you are running out of patience. Err I mean patients, get it? :0
> >
>
> I clearly stated I'm not a doctor. That said, I understand the DSM IV
> and how it's applied; I've deposed many doctors and read the depositions
> of an order of magnitude more than that.
>
> You can defend him all you want. On the other hand, his actions and
> postings fit the criteria of several of the diagnoses in the DSM IV; he
> acts paranoid; he's got delusions of grandeur and self-importance; he
> see's "Truths" that no one but him and perhaps an extremely small cadre
> of those in the Inner Circle can see; he argues in circles; he refuses
> to answer directly, choosing instead to drop little hints and make
> evasions; any serious questions of his beliefs are treated as personal
> insults and he responds with juvenile name calling; etc.
>
> Step back from the family aspect of this and watch as an outside
> observer and you'll see that what nearly everyone else seems to see.
> After all, everyone in this newsgroup started as an outsider; JTM's
> posting history speaks for itself.
>
> --
> Herb Schaltegger, Esq.
> Chief Counsel, Human O-Ring Society
> "I was promised flying cars! Where are the flying cars?!"
> ~ Avery Brooks

[Herb Schaltegger]

In article <T8tXa.63673$YN5.48753@sccrnsc01>,
"Paul Maxson" > wrote:

> ---
> "I clearly stated I'm not a doctor. That said, I understand the DSM IV
> and how it's applied; I've deposed many doctors and read the depositions
> of an order of magnitude more than that."
> -------------------------
>
> Sir,
>
> You admittedly are not qualified to score a MMPI test to reach this
> conclusion
> in ANY state in the U.S.

The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory is not always needed to
reach a psychological or psychiatric diagnosis, especially given such a
colorful and public history of behavior; I suggest you consult your
reference materials again.

>That and an interview with the patient would be
> needed
> but you have done neither nor are you qualified to do so.

The interview is needed, as well as a review of pertinent physical
medicine records (in order to discuss Axis III diagnosis, in particular).

> Deposing Dr.'s does not make you a Psychologist, so objection! :-)

Objection is overruled as out of order; I never stated I was and in fact
clearly stated I was *not*.

> I have stood back and watched him hold the line for 2 maybe 3 years now
> often times by himself and I have seen people like you come and go and
> it doesn't change anything. New names, new handles etc but he still plugs
> on.

I refer you to the common definition of insanity. In any case, people
move on because they get tired of arguing with someone who WILL NOT
discuss without dissembling, evading and finall insulting.

> Everyone says they "plonk him" but they don't they just keep going at it.

I don't read his posts any longer except when quoted by others and then
only by accident.

> Now you have him analyzed? What if he were a 15 year old kid, you are just
> reading text! Objection sustained. ;-)

He's not, by his own admission, a 15 year old kid. Your objection was
previously overruled as out of order. Feel free to raise it again at a
more appropriate time.

> P.S. As an Attorney (6 figures here in California) I would be
> *embarrassed* by your sig (but that's just me.)

Good thing you're not me, then, I suppose. Are YOU an attorney making
six figures in California?

> I would be off driving a Jag
> on a Country road not playing Dr. on a newsgroup as some rings Chief
> Council.

You know neither what I drive nor where I drive, nor is it relevant to
the discussion. Neither is the size of my house, the size of my student
loans, or the color of my dog for that matter.

> To each his own huh Chief?

Yes, of course.

> Paul Maxson

--
Herb Schaltegger, Esq.
Chief Counsel, Human O-Ring Society
"I was promised flying cars! Where are the flying cars?!"
~ Avery Brooks

[Paul Maxson]

"Are YOU an attorney making six figures in California? "
-----------------

If I was I would be in my Jag not here remember? He's badgering your honor.

I am a "Mall Guard" holding his own against an attorney who was appointed
Chief Council. Analyze *that*!

Clearly you state you have observed him publicly and an interview is
necessary.

'public history of behavior?' What finger am I holding up in this public
group Herb?
I think you get my point.

So I object again. What color shirt was he wearing when you performed this
diagnosis?

Otherwise objection sustained.

I rest my case anyway because no one here cares. This group is cluttered
with crap right now
sp people are just waiting for it to go away.

So tell a good lawyer joke or something, I concede because I don't have all
day here to go tit for tat back and forth. You win. See how easy that was
;-)

He can defend himself just fine. Have at it, good luck :-)

Paul Maxson

"Herb Schaltegger" > wrote in message
...
> In article <T8tXa.63673$YN5.48753@sccrnsc01>,
> "Paul Maxson" > wrote:
>
> > ---
> > "I clearly stated I'm not a doctor. That said, I understand the DSM IV
> > and how it's applied; I've deposed many doctors and read the depositions
> > of an order of magnitude more than that."
> > -------------------------
> >
> > Sir,
> >
> > You admittedly are not qualified to score a MMPI test to reach this
> > conclusion
> > in ANY state in the U.S.
>
> The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory is not always needed to
> reach a psychological or psychiatric diagnosis, especially given such a
> colorful and public history of behavior; I suggest you consult your
> reference materials again.
>
> >That and an interview with the patient would be
> > needed
> > but you have done neither nor are you qualified to do so.
>
> The interview is needed, as well as a review of pertinent physical
> medicine records (in order to discuss Axis III diagnosis, in particular).
>
> > Deposing Dr.'s does not make you a Psychologist, so objection! :-)
>
> Objection is overruled as out of order; I never stated I was and in fact
> clearly stated I was *not*.
>
> > I have stood back and watched him hold the line for 2 maybe 3 years now
> > often times by himself and I have seen people like you come and go and
> > it doesn't change anything. New names, new handles etc but he still
plugs
> > on.
>
> I refer you to the common definition of insanity. In any case, people
> move on because they get tired of arguing with someone who WILL NOT
> discuss without dissembling, evading and finall insulting.
>
> > Everyone says they "plonk him" but they don't they just keep going at
it.
>
> I don't read his posts any longer except when quoted by others and then
> only by accident.
>
> > Now you have him analyzed? What if he were a 15 year old kid, you are
just
> > reading text! Objection sustained. ;-)
>
> He's not, by his own admission, a 15 year old kid. Your objection was
> previously overruled as out of order. Feel free to raise it again at a
> more appropriate time.
>
> > P.S. As an Attorney (6 figures here in California) I would be
> > *embarrassed* by your sig (but that's just me.)
>
> Good thing you're not me, then, I suppose. Are YOU an attorney making
> six figures in California?
>
> > I would be off driving a Jag
> > on a Country road not playing Dr. on a newsgroup as some rings Chief
> > Council.
>
> You know neither what I drive nor where I drive, nor is it relevant to
> the discussion. Neither is the size of my house, the size of my student
> loans, or the color of my dog for that matter.
>
> > To each his own huh Chief?
>
> Yes, of course.
>
> > Paul Maxson
>
> --
> Herb Schaltegger, Esq.
> Chief Counsel, Human O-Ring Society
> "I was promised flying cars! Where are the flying cars?!"
> ~ Avery Brooks

[John Maxson]

Giganews posts/hosts Bob Mosley's abuse for Illuminati Online.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org>
wrote in message ...
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 06:50:30 -0500, Herb Schaltegger
> > wrote:
>
> >> Usenet psychiatry for the ages. Now available for free on S.S.S.. We
have
> >> all played the game but then none of us are putting a license out there
on
> >> the line are we?
> >
> >Irrelevent. Your father's posting history speaks for itself.
>
> ...And his brother's. And his own. I'm expecting the sister to show up
> any day now.
>
> Just killfile the whole family of inbreds and be done with them.
> Please.
>
>
> OM
>
> --
>
> "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
> his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
> poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society
>
> - General George S. Patton, Jr

[John Maxson]

Giganews posts/hosts Bob Mosley's abuse for Illuminati Online.
Sickening, isn't it?

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


OM <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org>
wrote in message ...
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 06:41:27 -0500, Herb Schaltegger
> > wrote:
>
> >Step back from the family aspect of this and watch as an outside
> >observer and you'll see that what nearly everyone else seems to see.
> >After all, everyone in this newsgroup started as an outsider; JTM's
> >posting history speaks for itself.
>
> ...No. We don't want him as an outside observer. We want him as an
> inside relative who will *FINALLY* do the right thing and have his
> worthless sack of **** for a father committed to a nuthouse.
>
> In any case, just killfile the little gestapo ******* and be done with
> him. This bull**** has gone on far too long...
>
>
> OM
>
> --
>
> "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
> his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
> poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society
>
> - General George S. Patton, Jr

[OM]

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 06:41:27 -0500, Herb Schaltegger
> wrote:

>Step back from the family aspect of this and watch as an outside
>observer and you'll see that what nearly everyone else seems to see.
>After all, everyone in this newsgroup started as an outsider; JTM's
>posting history speaks for itself.

....No. We don't want him as an outside observer. We want him as an
inside relative who will *FINALLY* do the right thing and have his
worthless sack of **** for a father committed to a nuthouse.

In any case, just killfile the little gestapo ******* and be done with
him. This bull**** has gone on far too long...


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Paul Maxson]

....And his brother's. And his own. I'm expecting the sister to show up
any day now.

Just killfile the whole family of inbreds and be done with them.
Please.


OM

--

Is 'inbreds' a word?

My sister would wipe the floor with you Bob if she wanted too.
She doesn't have any interest in any of this though unfortunately.

She has NAZI friends at "Smith and Wesson " and it would be better than
a "well placed bullet " and she could "hunt you down " "with the help of the
NAACP!"

Get all that Jr? Grow a set and take it offline.

It's self defense Jr. Big Bad Bob of Texas who lives by his server
eating chili, drinking beer and popping Vicodin. Go to your Playboy
club Bob and have some fun, live a little you senile old coot.

"OM" <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org> wrote
in message ...
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 06:50:30 -0500, Herb Schaltegger
> > wrote:
>
> >> Usenet psychiatry for the ages. Now available for free on S.S.S.. We
have
> >> all played the game but then none of us are putting a license out there
on
> >> the line are we?
> >
> >Irrelevent. Your father's posting history speaks for itself.
>
> ...And his brother's. And his own. I'm expecting the sister to show up
> any day now.
>
> Just killfile the whole family of inbreds and be done with them.
> Please.
>
>
> OM
>
> --
>
> "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
> his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
> poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society
>
> - General George S. Patton, Jr

[Paul Maxson]

Do you feel lucky punk? :-) Big Bad Bob the Usenet Loser who is losing
ground
complaining about longevity when he has been abusing the Net since the 80's.


"OM" <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org> wrote
in message ...
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 06:41:27 -0500, Herb Schaltegger
> > wrote:
>
> >Step back from the family aspect of this and watch as an outside
> >observer and you'll see that what nearly everyone else seems to see.
> >After all, everyone in this newsgroup started as an outsider; JTM's
> >posting history speaks for itself.
>
> ...No. We don't want him as an outside observer. We want him as an
> inside relative who will *FINALLY* do the right thing and have his
> worthless sack of **** for a father committed to a nuthouse.
>
> In any case, just killfile the little gestapo ******* and be done with
> him. This bull**** has gone on far too long...
>
>
> OM
>
> --
>
> "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
> his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
> poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society
>
> - General George S. Patton, Jr

[Stephen Stocker]

In article >, Paul
Maxson wrote:
>
> Do you feel lucky punk? :-) Big Bad Bob the Usenet Loser who is losing
> ground
> complaining about longevity when he has been abusing the Net since the 80's.

Maybe it's a remake of Alice in Wonderland? Lawyers interpreting the
DSM, those who post garbage insulting (albeit ineffectually) an entire
family...

I think I'll play aerospace engineer tomorrow. :)

Steve

<snip garbage>

[Charleston]

"Stephen Stocker" > wrote in message
...

> Maybe it's a remake of Alice in Wonderland? Lawyers interpreting the
> DSM, those who post garbage insulting (albeit ineffectually) an entire
> family...
>
> I think I'll play aerospace engineer tomorrow. :)

I'll join you. We could not do any worse than some did back in January.

--

Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[Terrence Daniels]

"Herb Schaltegger" > wrote in message
...
> Irrelevent. Your father's posting history speaks for itself.

Dammit Herb... Lawyers should know how to spell "irrelevant". ;)

I'm glad to see confirmation that Charleston Chew is our resident nutcase's
son. I knew I had him killfiled for a good reason.

[Terrence Daniels]

> In article <T8tXa.63673$YN5.48753@sccrnsc01>,
> "Paul Maxson" > wrote:

>snip argument

I find it interesting that you, who have apparently left your dad out there
in the middle of Nowhereseville, Iowa, to stew in conspiracy theory madness,
are jumping in to defend him on Usenet. Disgusting, really, if you think
about it.

Sure, I poke fun at you people, but honestly I hope to God I don't end up
like any of you. "There but for the Grace of God go I" is the saying that
comes to mind. You might not be teaching me jack **** about your own little
Challenger fantasies and "facts" that only you can explain, but you sure are
instructive in poor family management and how NOT to handle these kinds of
problems.

My penny from the Peanut Gallery, slipping through the killfile.

See you in Hell,

-Terrence
-------------
Genuinely Unqualified Poster, with No Engineering Degree, Ever

[Paul Maxson]

If you really care he went back to the area he was born to spend the rest
of his life there and he likes it there. I have been there myself, he took
me there
and showed me where he grew up. Now he wants to be buried where he grew up.
That is a bad thing? I didn't grow up there I grew up here and so I wouldn't
live the rest of my life and then retire in Iowa.
My wife and I make more money here but the fact that I am defending
him and you are calling him mad speaks volumes as to your true intent of the
message.

Of course my posts are too logical for some of you attackers of his. I am
not going to hell though.

Paul Maxson

P.S. I love you dad! :-)

"Terrence Daniels" > wrote in
message thlink.net...
> > In article <T8tXa.63673$YN5.48753@sccrnsc01>,
> > "Paul Maxson" > wrote:
>
> >snip argument
>
> I find it interesting that you, who have apparently left your dad out
there
> in the middle of Nowhereseville, Iowa, to stew in conspiracy theory
madness,
> are jumping in to defend him on Usenet. Disgusting, really, if you think
> about it.
>
> Sure, I poke fun at you people, but honestly I hope to God I don't end up
> like any of you. "There but for the Grace of God go I" is the saying that
> comes to mind. You might not be teaching me jack **** about your own
little
> Challenger fantasies and "facts" that only you can explain, but you sure
are
> instructive in poor family management and how NOT to handle these kinds of
> problems.
>
> My penny from the Peanut Gallery, slipping through the killfile.
>
> See you in Hell,
>
> -Terrence
> -------------
> Genuinely Unqualified Poster, with No Engineering Degree, Ever
>
>

[Charleston]

"OM" <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org> wrote
because he had nothing better to do than be obnoxious:

> ...But expected, from someone born of white trash accented with severe
> dementia. Makes one wish retroactive abortion was legal.

As horribly rotten as your post is, I would not wish that you missed this
opportunity we call life. I do pity you.

--

Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[Alan Erskine]

"Terrence Daniels" > wrote in
message thlink.net...
> I'm glad to see confirmation that Charleston Chew is our resident
nutcase's
> son. I knew I had him killfiled for a good reason.

It's been known for a while. Charleston posts with the ending of "Daniel"
and mostly in response to JTM's posts. Google for "alan erskine, daniel
maxson, charleston" etc.

As a matter of fact, earlier this year, I asked "Charleston" if 'he' was
indeed Daniel Maxson ("are you, or are you not Daniel Maxson, son of John
Maxson"). Now, did that happen around the same time that the attacks
against me started? I can't remember.
--
Alan Erskine
alanerskine(at)optusnet.com.au
Is Lewis Moran the type of father figure
John Howard wants for Australian children?

[OM]

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 03:30:48 GMT, "Terrence Daniels"
> wrote:

>I find it interesting that you, who have apparently left your dad out there
>in the middle of Nowhereseville, Iowa, to stew in conspiracy theory madness,
>are jumping in to defend him on Usenet. Disgusting, really, if you think
>about it.

....But expected, from someone born of white trash accented with severe
dementia. Makes one wish retroactive abortion was legal.


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

[Rhonda Lea Kirk]

Alan Erskine wrote:
> "Terrence Daniels" wrote:

>> I'm glad to see confirmation that Charleston Chew is our
>> resident nutcase's son. I knew I had him killfiled for a
>> good reason.

> It's been known for a while. Charleston posts with the
> ending of "Daniel" and mostly in response to JTM's posts.
> Google for "alan erskine, daniel maxson, charleston" etc.
>
> As a matter of fact, earlier this year, I asked
> "Charleston" if 'he' was indeed Daniel Maxson ("are you,
> or are you not Daniel Maxson, son of John Maxson"). Now,
> did that happen around the same time that the attacks
> against me started? I can't remember.

What reason does any Maxson have to attack Mezei? Unless you
can fit Mezei into your theory, the Maxson angle doesn't
work.

rl

[Paul Maxson]

> "Terrence Daniels" > wrote in
> message thlink.net...
> > > In article <T8tXa.63673$YN5.48753@sccrnsc01>,
> > > "Paul Maxson" > wrote:
> >
> > >snip argument
> >
> > I find it interesting that you, who have apparently left your dad out
> there
> > in the middle of Nowhereseville, Iowa, to stew in conspiracy theory
> madness,
> > are jumping in to defend him on Usenet. Disgusting, really, if you think
> > about it.
> >
> > Sure, I poke fun at you people, but honestly I hope to God I don't end
up
> > like any of you. "There but for the Grace of God go I" is the saying
that
> > comes to mind. You might not be teaching me jack **** about your own
> little
> > Challenger fantasies and "facts" that only you can explain, but you sure
> are
> > instructive in poor family management and how NOT to handle these kinds
of
> > problems.
> >
> > My penny from the Peanut Gallery, slipping through the killfile.
> >
> > See you in Hell,
> >
> > -Terrence
> > -------------
> > Genuinely Unqualified Poster, with No Engineering Degree, Ever


Hey, I'm not an Engineer or a Scientist either and I didn't see a qualifier
checking
ID's at the door to this group. "It is the Usenet."

"There but for the Grace of God go I" is the saying that
> comes to mind.

I like, "Judge not lest you be judged" much better. We all could work on
that one!

P.S. "You people" Ross Perot said that once and got booed off the stage lol.

[Terrence Daniels]

"Kent Betts" > wrote in message
om...
> You agree that the aft field joint caused the accident, but the Rogers
> Commission misunderstood the mode ("most significant aspects")of the
> failure, which according to you was....what?

DO NOT CONFUSE ME WITH YOUR EARTH LOGIC, HUMAN!

[LooseChanj]

On or about Tue, 05 Aug 2003 23:49:02 GMT, Terrence Daniels
> made the sensational claim that:
> DO NOT CONFUSE ME WITH YOUR EARTH LOGIC, HUMAN!

That's MISTER HUMAN to you, Alien scum.
--
This is a siggy | To E-mail, do note | This space is for rent
It's properly formatted | who you mean to reply-to | Inquire within if you
No person, none, care | and it will reach me | Would like your ad here

[Alan Erskine]

How many days left until you leave the net, Rhonda?

--
Alan Erskine
alanerskine(at)optusnet.com.au
Perhaps John Howard believes
criminals are better suited to
helping the human race survive.


"Rhonda Lea Kirk" > wrote in message
...
> Alan Erskine wrote:
> > "Terrence Daniels" wrote:
>
> >> I'm glad to see confirmation that Charleston Chew is our
> >> resident nutcase's son. I knew I had him killfiled for a
> >> good reason.
>
> > It's been known for a while. Charleston posts with the
> > ending of "Daniel" and mostly in response to JTM's posts.
> > Google for "alan erskine, daniel maxson, charleston" etc.
> >
> > As a matter of fact, earlier this year, I asked
> > "Charleston" if 'he' was indeed Daniel Maxson ("are you,
> > or are you not Daniel Maxson, son of John Maxson"). Now,
> > did that happen around the same time that the attacks
> > against me started? I can't remember.
>
> What reason does any Maxson have to attack Mezei? Unless you
> can fit Mezei into your theory, the Maxson angle doesn't
> work.
>
> rl
>

[Charleston]

"Kent Betts" > wrote in message
om...
> "Charleston"
>
> > Jon Berndt then wrote:
> >
> > "I'm curious. Given all the research you've done, do you think the
> > Commission found the actual "direct" cause (O-ring failure)? If so, do
you
> > think they went far enough in fingering the other contributing causes
> > (culture, etc.)?"
> >
> > to which I responded:
> >
> > "I do believe the failure of the right aft field joint caused the
accident.
> > The Roger's Commission nailed all but the most significant aspects of
the
> > joint failure. It winked at them a few times, but ya, they missed part
of
> > the cause."
>
> You agree that the aft field joint caused the accident, but the Rogers
> Commission misunderstood the mode ("most significant aspects")of the
> failure, which according to you was....what?

I'll get to it eventually in the proper context. First there are more
important things to address like Pappy's comments about NASA's
misidentification of which frustum had the parachute that worked.

Kent, there is much more in Jon's quote of Pappy than has been even hinted
at so far.

--

Daniel
Mount Charleston, not Charleston, SC

[John Maxson]

Given your history of being so selective and inaccurate, my
guess is that it's extremely doubtful. First, let's see the quote.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Jon Berndt > wrote in message
...
> "Charleston" > wrote in message
> >
> > Kent, there is much more in Jon's quote of Pappy than has been
> > even hinted at so far.
>
> This may actually be interesting. ;-)
>
> Jon

[Stephen Stocker]

Paul, it's nice to see a post in here with a human touch. I have no
idea if those who do otherwise are under the impression that it makes
them sound "professional", if so, it has quite the opposite effect.
Thanks!

Steve

In article >, Paul
Maxson wrote:
> If you really care he went back to the area he was born to spend the
> rest
> of his life there and he likes it there. I have been there myself, he took
> me there
> and showed me where he grew up. Now he wants to be buried where he grew up.
> That is a bad thing? I didn't grow up there I grew up here and so I wouldn't
> live the rest of my life and then retire in Iowa.
> My wife and I make more money here but the fact that I am defending
> him and you are calling him mad speaks volumes as to your true intent of the
> message.
>
> Of course my posts are too logical for some of you attackers of his. I am
> not going to hell though.
>
> Paul Maxson
>
> P.S. I love you dad! :-)
>

[Stephen Stocker]

In article <2KHXa.62539$zy.37961@fed1read06>, Charleston wrote:
> "OM" <om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_research _facility.org> wrote
> because he had nothing better to do than be obnoxious:
>
>> ...But expected, from someone born of white trash accented with severe
>> dementia. Makes one wish retroactive abortion was legal.
>
> As horribly rotten as your post is, I would not wish that you missed this
> opportunity we call life. I do pity you.

Me too. He forgot to use the word "*******". Or even "trailer"! :)

Steve

[Paul Maxson]

"Stephen Stocker" > wrote in message
...
> Paul, it's nice to see a post in here with a human touch. I have no
> idea if those who do otherwise are under the impression that it makes
> them sound "professional", if so, it has quite the opposite effect.
> Thanks!
>
> Steve


You're welcome Steve. I enjoy your unbiased reasoning too. I have the
benefit
of not really caring what others think, but when someone says something out
of line
I like to feel free to interject my own side of the story. I am not an
Engineer or a
Scientist, but I went through it with them. I lived it, I was there. That's
the extent
of my knowledge on space shuttles. I saw one land in the desert at age 15 or
16
(my father took me there.) We were practically underneath it when it sonic
BOOMED!

I recently lost a brother 2 months ago, he was only 49 y.o.
(Vietnam Era Vet Army & Marines) and his death was ridiculed here.
He had Legionnaires Disease and a jeep ran over his leg. He was a GREAT man.

I also served my country as did my other brother Daniel and my father John.
We are not bad people as the "Ring" will tell you. I left for almost
2 years and never posted, not once and was mentioned daily but the ridicule
of my deceased brother was the last straw, so now when I have time I
interject
on topics I feel qualified to answer (which aren't too many in a shuttle
group.)

:-)

Paul Maxson

[Terrence Daniels]

"Alan Erskine" > wrote in message
...
> It's been known for a while. Charleston posts with the ending of "Daniel"
> and mostly in response to JTM's posts. Google for "alan erskine, daniel
> maxson, charleston" etc.

See, I wasn't totally sure. Sometimes they change names and pop out from
under my Killfile.

[Stephen Stocker]

In article <6w3Ya.77616$uu5.8500@sccrnsc04>, Paul Maxson wrote:
>
>
> "Stephen Stocker" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Paul, it's nice to see a post in here with a human touch. I have no
>> idea if those who do otherwise are under the impression that it makes
>> them sound "professional", if so, it has quite the opposite effect.
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> You're welcome Steve. I enjoy your unbiased reasoning too. I have the
> benefit
> of not really caring what others think, but when someone says something out
> of line
> I like to feel free to interject my own side of the story.

These are also my feelings, Paul. What an unusual concept here! :)

> I am not an
> Engineer or a
> Scientist, but I went through it with them. I lived it, I was there. That's
> the extent
> of my knowledge on space shuttles. I saw one land in the desert at age 15 or
> 16
> (my father took me there.) We were practically underneath it when it sonic
> BOOMED!

You're fortunate to have had the opportunity, I think. It must have
been an incredibly exciting time for you! My own interest in space had
been pretty much dormant since I was in grade school (during the
Gemini and Apollo era) and it's rather nice to find that the
fascination is still there.

> I recently lost a brother 2 months ago, he was only 49 y.o.
> (Vietnam Era Vet Army & Marines) and his death was ridiculed here.
> He had Legionnaires Disease and a jeep ran over his leg. He was a GREAT man.

I'm so sorry to hear that. Please accept my belated condolences. As
I'm sure you know, time doesn't exactly heal the loss, but it does get
better.

As for this group, what can I possibly say? Those who would ridicule
someone's loss tell the world what they really are.

> I also served my country as did my other brother Daniel and my father John.
> We are not bad people as the "Ring" will tell you. I left for almost
> 2 years and never posted, not once and was mentioned daily but the ridicule
> of my deceased brother was the last straw, so now when I have time I
> interject
> on topics I feel qualified to answer (which aren't too many in a shuttle
> group.)

Me neither, for sure! But I do feel qualified to address issues of
human decency. I don't think you or your family are bad people, far
from it. The biggest mistake anyone can make when talking to a
newcomer in a group is to try to discredit someone else in that group.
Anyone capable of independent thought has to wonder what their purpose
could possibly be. If the one being discredited is truly a jerk, or
lacking in intelligence or whatever, it'll show up soon enough. About
the best thing I can say concerning the "ring" is that it's aptly
named, for several reasons.

Anyway, I'm glad to see you posting again. There is, after all, room
for *all* here. :)

Steve